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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#265601: Jan 3rd 2019 at 10:50:55 AM

I don't remember if it was last year or the year before that this happened and Republicans managed to ransom children's healthcare to force Democrats to sign off on their bullshit budget.

This precedent having been establishes already, my biggest concern right now is wondering what puppy-kicking evil they're going to dredge up so they can hold a gun to the nation's head and say "Pay for the wall or the puppies get it." Again.

Being Good is so much harder than being Evil.

EDIT: Wait, wasn't that also the whole rationale behind Trump eliminating DACA? They ended DACA so they could ransom the Dreamers for more of their agenda?

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 3rd 2019 at 11:52:52 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#265602: Jan 3rd 2019 at 11:01:33 AM

Seems like Pelosi has just won the Speaker election.

Regarding DACA, Trump scrapped it, I am not certain that there was any grand design behind it.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Imca (Veteran)
#265603: Jan 3rd 2019 at 11:07:36 AM

[up][up] Nope, [up] is right, he just scraped it because brown people.

There was no grand plan, just a racist cheeto.

Also the healthcare thing was for the end of 2017 budget, how time flies.

Edited by Imca on Jan 3rd 2019 at 11:08:18 AM

DeathorCake Since: Mar, 2016
#265604: Jan 3rd 2019 at 1:21:21 PM

If I can jump on the PAYGO thing for a second, putting it in the rules package is a pretty clear signal that the Democratic leadership is willing to throw it's left wing under the bus. Can't raise taxes on bottom 80% + no deficit spending means no proper stimulus in a recession, let alone useful public works, free college or single payer healthcare.

Either Pelosi + Company intend to stick to the rule through thick and thin in which case they will allow avoidable harm to hundreds of thousands of people at least in order to preserve their image of "fiscal responsibility" with forced austerity or they intend to abandon it in a recession, in which case they give the Republicans more ammo for no reason whatsoever when the recession hits or they remove the rules the moment they get a Democratic president.

Rick Perlstein has a rather good (if long) 90 min lecture/interview at Brown University here about how the Democrats have historically stuck to this attempt at losing their reputation as the tax and spend party despite miserable failure for decade after decade like New Labour did in the UK. In my opinion the Dem left is right to be incensed about this.

Edited by DeathorCake on Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:27:59 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#265605: Jan 3rd 2019 at 1:30:45 PM

[up] But that's the thing...it actually isn't. There are only two progressive seats speaking up against it, the others don't seem to care. It is the far left media which kicks up a fuss about it and is already more or less calling every progressive democrat not fighting against it a traitor.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#265606: Jan 3rd 2019 at 1:34:08 PM

The Republicans don't need ammunition because they will throw whatever they feel like throwing against all the laws of god, logic, and sanity.

We have always been at war with East Mexico.

Literally worrying about the optics of decisions no longer matters because we have the idiocy of pizzagate and the e-mail server.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jan 3rd 2019 at 1:34:36 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#265607: Jan 3rd 2019 at 1:39:37 PM

[up][tup]. A good portion of Republicans earnestly believe in fucking Qanon; its pointless to worry about optics when dealing with them, they'll just make shit up.

That said, the optics of dealing with Independents and the Democratic base are another story.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
DeathorCake Since: Mar, 2016
#265608: Jan 3rd 2019 at 1:40:03 PM

[up][up][up]

As previously stated the American "far left media" isn't actually too far left, the usual minor conspiracy theorists aside. I probably count given I'm more or less a Bennite, but I'm not sure the few public figures getting angry about PAYGO actually go further than mild social democracy. Not sure, don't know much about this Ro Khanna guy. I think more of them should be speaking and voting against this, opposing needless hardship is far from a radical position.

[up][up]

The rule is a terrible one anyway, optics or no optics. The whole point is that any attempt at being "fiscally responsible" will impoverish people and gain the Democratic Party precisely zero PR points for cutting the deficit.

Edited by DeathorCake on Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:43:25 AM

TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#265609: Jan 3rd 2019 at 1:48:34 PM

@Wall: Yeah, I actually remember that meeting happened. By everything I meant literally EVERYTHING. Restructuring the tax code, implement some form of universal healthcare (beyond what the ACA offered), protect all immigrants already here and make it much more straightforward to come in, crush the too-big-to-fail banks, reverse Citizens United and related things that allow corporations and the like to buy politicians, make it so the debt ceiling can't be used as a bludgeon, basically all the stuff that's anathema to Republicans. Create a heads-I-win-tails-you-lose situation.

Edited by TroperOnAStickV2 on Jan 3rd 2019 at 4:50:07 AM

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#265610: Jan 3rd 2019 at 1:59:02 PM

[up]

There are two major ways that could backfire.

1) It could easily present the Democrats as being entirely unreasonable when it comes to negotiations (rather than keeping the blame squarely on Trump).

2) If it's granted, how easy could it be to get the parts the GOP want and then go "Haha, fuck you!" and/or repeal the parts they don't like after enacting it?

And of course, if they did go along with it, that means we'd get a multi-billion dollar boondoggle that will be an everlasting monument to Trump, and fuck his ego.

Edited by ironballs16 on Jan 3rd 2019 at 4:59:47 AM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#265611: Jan 3rd 2019 at 2:37:33 PM

Tobias does have kind of a point: a this point in optics the republican are buring more and more of their goodwill and their reputation of being stern, non nonsense by embracing the trump train, if the dems can behive more like adult(not a dificult thing here) they could in theory shatter the republican reputation for years to come.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#265612: Jan 3rd 2019 at 3:40:31 PM

The argument I have for that is that if that was the case, the Tea Party and Trump would never have arisen in the first place. The Republican reputation and good will was eroded for decades in my region because they weren't extreme ENOUGH.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#265613: Jan 3rd 2019 at 3:46:22 PM

[up]Goodwill take a good time to die and you cant mantain a stright face about the GOT being racional when they become more and more cringy to look.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#265615: Jan 3rd 2019 at 4:14:24 PM

The Republicans look all someone hit copy paste on the same guy many times over

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#265616: Jan 3rd 2019 at 4:30:29 PM

[up][up] Somewhat related, but what was it that Pete Davidson said about Dan Crenshaw that made the right throw a hissy fit and forced Davidson to directly apologize to Crenshaw?

Edited by SciFiSlasher on Jan 3rd 2019 at 6:30:44 AM

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#265617: Jan 3rd 2019 at 4:43:26 PM

I did a Google and it seems the latter is on Saterday Night live and make a joke about him having one eye as he really did lose an eye in a war zone

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/11/saturday-night-live-pete-davidson-dan-crenshaw-veterans-day/575581/ <— goes into more detail

Edited by Ultimatum on Jan 3rd 2019 at 12:44:33 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#265618: Jan 3rd 2019 at 4:46:23 PM

I want to take the Democrat image and rearrange them by height.

Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#265619: Jan 3rd 2019 at 4:56:46 PM

Well, only one of the 36 newly elected women in the house being a republican doesn't help them in mirroring the electorate (the one in the front in a grey suit). All the other new republican members are white men: 2019 class photo of house members.

Edited by Grafite on Jan 3rd 2019 at 1:03:21 PM

Life is unfair...
TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#265620: Jan 3rd 2019 at 5:23:43 PM

[up]x10 Make sure the good stuff is implemented first, and then give them a piddly excuse for a wall. Twist arms. At the least it could be spun as Trump selling out Go P priorities for the sake of his monomania.

Edited by TroperOnAStickV2 on Jan 3rd 2019 at 8:26:35 AM

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#265621: Jan 3rd 2019 at 5:25:56 PM

[up]That would not only just be needless taunting at that point (which can be done elsewhere), but also still not look good for Dems.

i'm tired, my friend
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#265622: Jan 3rd 2019 at 5:27:03 PM

@Death Or Cake: The Democrats are not "selling out the left." In the first place, we can't "sell out" the left because (spoiler alert) we're not a left-wing party to begin with, we're a big tent of "everyone who is not a completely insane far-right nutball," ranging from conservatives to Clintonian centrists to leftists, with Pelosi being somewhere between Third Way and leftist.

Second, the PAYGO rule is meaningless because it's already enforced by law, which would require the Senate to ditch.

Adopting the rule is a meaningless signal for a fiscal conservatism that most of the voting populace, and most of their members, are warm toward in principle without being willing to actually suffer it. It doesn't actually have any effect on what they can or will do.

TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#265623: Jan 3rd 2019 at 5:28:02 PM

[up][up] Honestly? Republicans DESERVE to be taunted. And what precisely do you mean by "it would not look good for the Dems"?

Edited by TroperOnAStickV2 on Jan 3rd 2019 at 8:28:44 AM

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#265624: Jan 3rd 2019 at 5:30:08 PM

[up]Giving Trump anything that resembles a wall. It'd just look like we're trying not to look like we're budging while very clearly budging.

i'm tired, my friend
TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#265625: Jan 3rd 2019 at 5:32:47 PM

Fair. I still think it'd be possible to spin it against Trump in on way or another, either he DOESN'T get his wall, or it can be painted as "he betrayed all these Republican principles just so he could built this useless wall!"

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.

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