TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#265576: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:02:05 AM

So it's more of a guideline then?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#265577: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:02:29 AM

Lindsey Graham is on Fox News telling Trump that compromising on his wall will mean the effective end of his presidency.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#265578: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:02:59 AM

I don't see it being much of an issue practically, because until 2020 at least the Democrats aren't getting any major policy goals completed via Congress anyway. They can show their hand and what they have to offer, but they won't have to pay for it until the Republicans aren't in a position to block it.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#265579: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:04:50 AM

With the end of the shutdown and work looking to resume

In what world are you living in where the shutdown is coming to an end?

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#265580: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:05:14 AM

[up][up]A lot of progressives seem to have realized this, which is probably why most of them don't seem to be committed to opposing paygo.

Edited by M84 on Jan 4th 2019 at 1:05:27 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#265581: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:05:35 AM

To be fair, they can also get some things done through the spending bills. Assuming that Trump is willing to let at least some of them through.

Something I wonder is whether there is a case to be made that long-term government deficits should not exceed inflation rates...

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#265582: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:06:39 AM

[up]Unless he gets his wall, he's not going to approve jack shit.

Edited by M84 on Jan 4th 2019 at 1:06:51 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#265583: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:08:01 AM

Trump is well known for his volatility. And for all we know once the moral (and financial backstops) of the unpaid border patrols has sunk so low that border security breaks down, enough Republicans (or their voters) will get fed up that we see a veto override.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#265584: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:11:23 AM

They should give a Trump a wall,but not the one he's expecting,like it's a one part of a wall and call it "The Donald Trump memorial wall" and erect it somewhere in Washington

Edited by Ultimatum on Jan 3rd 2019 at 5:17:07 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#265585: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:12:21 AM

Isn't the most basic economic case that you don't want the rate of debt repayment to be growing faster than government income? So long as there's no issue of the payments growing faster than the country's ability to pay, the actual size of the debt or deficit is largely an academic problem.

TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#265586: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:14:26 AM

I still think it might be worth it to offer Trump his precious wall in exchange for literally EVERYTHING else. Basically, put him in a Morton's Fork of sorts where he can get his penis monument, but everything else the Republicans stand for is destroyed.

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#265587: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:18:01 AM

[up]Terrible idea, because giving Trump even a tiny fraction of his wall, no matter what the trade-off is, is not good optics in any sense.

Also, what even is paygo?

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Jan 3rd 2019 at 12:18:16 PM

i'm tired, my friend
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#265588: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:18:20 AM

[up][up]No. Absolutely not. The wall is a massive waste of time and money that would be a monument to the xenophobic bigotry that gave Trump the WH.

[up]From the article I linked:

House Democratic leaders made public on Tuesday night one of the first big pieces of legislation they would vote on: the rules governing the 116th Congress. The package makes substantial changes to the rules under which House Republicans had governed for the past eight years. It eliminates the need for stand-alone votes to increase the debt ceiling, the rule requiring three-fifths support for tax increases to pass, and the “cut-as-you-go” (or cut-go) rule, which requires that spending increases be met with matching spending cuts elsewhere. The package also creates the Select Committee on the Climate Crisis, authorizes the House to intervene in the current lawsuit against the Affordable Care Act, and removes term limits on committee chairs.

But the change that garnered the most attention Wednesday morning was what Speaker-designate Nancy Pelosi and incoming Rules Committee Chairman Jim Mc Govern chose to replace CUTGO with (instead of, say, nothing). The rules package reinstates a “pay-as-you-go” (or pay-go) rule, meaning that certain measures that increase the deficit would have to be matched with spending cuts or revenue increases. Democrats obeyed the pay-go rule during their last majority, only to watch Republicans eliminate it when they took control in 2011.

Edited by M84 on Jan 4th 2019 at 1:19:52 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#265589: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:19:34 AM

[up][up][up][up] It is. Which is why debt is usually measured in percentage of government income. The discussion comes in because SOME people believe that you can spend your way out of a debt spiral by spending more and hence encouraging the economy which then leads to more government income. That's naive, though. There is an economic model which recommends higher spending in time of crisis, but what people overlook is that the same model also says that the government should lower its debt during times of growth so that it can afford those extraspendending during crisis.

Edited by Swanpride on Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:19:53 AM

CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#265590: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:20:42 AM

Retaking control of the House, Democrats prepare to act as a check on Trump

     New Years' Plans in the House 
As a new Democratic majority is sworn into the House of Representatives Thursday, party leaders say campaign finance reform, voting rights and ethics investigations are among their priorities as Democrats prepare to act as a check on the White House.

After two years of Republican dominance in Washington, Democrats are retaking control of the House of Representatives and with it many of the key oversight roles granted to the US legislative branch.

When the representatives are sworn in on Thursday, the new Democratic chairs of more than 20 House committees – some of them among the president’s fiercest critics – will be in a position to compel him or members of his administration to comply with House requests and investigations, from allegations of conspiring with Russia to financial conflicts of interest to government ethics violations.

Speaking at a news conference shortly after Democrats regained the House in November, Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi, who is set to reprise her role as speaker, said that oversight of the Trump administration would be a focus of the new Congress.

"Make no mistake, oversight is a congressional responsibility," she said. "The administration may try to say oversight is investigation. No, oversight is our responsibility ... we will honor our responsibilities."

But first the US government needs to get up and running again. The political shift in Washington comes as a government shutdown (over the $5 billion that President Donald Trump wants to build a wall on the border with Mexico) is poised to enter its third week.

"Our first order of business will be to end the reckless Trump shutdown and re-open the government," said Representative Hakeem Jeffries of New York in an interview this week with AP.

The president wants to "waste millions in taxpayer dollars on a medieval border wall", Jeffries said, vowing that Democrats would draw "a line in the stand" to oppose the project, which the party maintains would do little to improve border security.

Shedding light on dark money

House Resolution 1 (HR 1), the first bill slated to be introduced by the new Democratic majority, is a broad proposal focusing on campaign finance reform, anti-corruption measures and voting rights.

In a Washington Post op-ed published in November, Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi and Maryland Representative John Sarbanes said the midterm victory had handed Democrats a mandate to “restore the promise of our democracy – a government of, by and for the people”.

“In the face of a torrent of special-interest dark money, partisan gerrymandering and devious vote-suppression schemes, voters elected a House Democratic majority determined to bring real change to restore our democracy,” they wrote.

“For far too long, big-money and corporate special interests have undermined the will of the people and subverted policymaking in Washington,” they wrote. The close relationship between government and private industry will face new scrutiny, with Democrats proposing “strong new ethics laws to stop officials from using their public office for personal gain”.

“Finally, let’s make it easier, not harder, to vote,” the authors said. Democrats plan to push for a nationwide system of automatic voter registration, measures to protect election infrastructure from foreign interference and end the partisan gerrymandering that is designed to disenfranchise certain voting blocs, often minorities.

The Republicans who still control the Senate, however, are unlikely to pass HR 1 and Trump is equally unlikely to sign it, leaving the Democrats' policy agenda a non-starter.

But the Democratic focus on big-money corruption is something of a shot across the bow that dares the administration to defend unpopular practices like the influence of corporate money in politics or measures to disenfranchise voters. By laying claim to these issues early on, Democrats may be hoping to portray themselves as the party that will defend "the people" against self-serving special interests.

“As the public observes this HR 1 agenda going forward, we believe it will have great support and that message won’t be lost on the Senate or on the president of the United States,” Pelosi told a news conference discussing the bill in December.

During the midterm campaign season Democrats focused on a number of bread-and-butter issues, those policies that tangibly affect the day-to-day lives of many Americans. Key among them is reforming the Affordable Care Act to lower the prices of prescription drugs, a trillion-dollar plan to create high-wage jobs rebuilding America’s crumbling infrastructure and tackling income inequality.

“In the years following the Great Recession (2009-2012), 91 percent of all new wealth created accrued to the top one percent of earners,” the Democratic Party notes on its website, vowing to “build an economy that works for all – not just those at the top”.

The party has also said it will try to work with Republicans on passing a bill expanding background checks on those looking to purchase guns and legislation protecting the so-called "Dreamers" – those undocumented immigrants brought into the United States as children, many of whom have lived there most of their lives.

But both gun control and immigration have long been political sticking points, with the parties generally unable to find common ground. The Democrats’ best hopes for finding bipartisan support may lie in an infrastructure bill, with rebuilding transportation links a proposal for which both parties – as well as Trump – have expressed support.

Trouble brewing in committee

Even if the Democratic agenda is destined to be stonewalled, Trump and his party are facing a reckoning. Some of the president’s most vocal critics are now in control of key House committees with wide-ranging powers to investigate, subpoena and compel the public release of documents.

As the new head of the House Financial Services Committee, California Representative Maxine Waters will have the power to subpoena Trump’s tax returns. She has also vowed to investigate why Deutsche Bank lent money to Trump when most other banks declined. Deutsche Bank – which Waters has called “one of the biggest money laundering banks in the world” – was fined $630 million in 2017 by US and UK financial authorities for its role in Russian money laundering.

Special Counsel Robert Mueller has also subpoenaed the records of Trump’s Deutsche Bank loans, millions of dollars of which are still outstanding.

Waters also opposes Trump’s moves to deregulate banks and other financial institutions and wants to expand the work of the US consumer protection agency.

She has repeatedly and publicly clashed with the president, and has said she believes that when all is revealed about the Trump campaign’s dealings with Russia it will lead to Trump’s impeachment.

With Democrats now in the majority, Representative Adam Schiff of California will take over as chairman of the House’s Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. His predecessor, Republican Devin Nunes, was repeatedly accused of running interference for Trump while serving on the committee, which was investigating Russian involvement in the 2016 presidential election. The panel wrapped up its work in August – saying it had found "no evidence" of coordination between the Trump campaign and Moscow – over the vehement objections of Schiff and its other Democratic members.

Schiff pulled no punches in describing the investigations a Democrat-led House should launch in an October op-ed for the Washington Post, citing “credible” suspicions that the US president might be compromised by a foreign power.

“There are serious and credible allegations the Russians may possess financial leverage over the president, including perhaps the laundering of Russian money through his businesses,” Schiff wrote.

“It would be negligent to our national security not to find out.”

In a CBS interview last month, Schiff was asked about claims the Trump team may have committed campaign finance violations linked to hush money payments made to porn star Stormy Daniels. “There’s a very real prospect that on the day Donald Trump leaves office the Justice Department may indict him, that he may be the first president in quite some time to face the real prospect of jail time,” Schiff said.

Democrat Elijah E. Cummings will take over the leadership of the powerful House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, which has jurisdiction over nearly all government activities. In a statement issued shortly after it became clear Democrats had retaken the House, Cummings said he wanted to focus on improving people’s daily lives, by tackling the sharp rise in prescription drug costs, as well as investigating corruption within the Trump administration.

“President Trump has not been held accountable,” Cummings told the Washington Post in an interview just hours after winning re-election. “We want to figure out if the president is acting in the interests of the American people or in his own financial interest. I would consider it legislative malpractice not to do it.”

Trump will face other challenges from Appropriations Committee chair Nita Lowey, who is likely to deny his $5 billion request for border wall funding, and Frank Pallone of the Energy and Commerce Committee, who has demanded answers on what he called the Trump administration's “illegal efforts to undermine” the Affordable Care Act. Representative Richard E. Neal, the next chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, has also said he plans to ask for Trump’s tax returns but has acknowledged that the matter may end up in court.

Incoming Judiciary Committee chairman Jerrold Nadler has a long history of taking on Trump. As a local assemblyman in the 1980s, he fought to stop the celebrity real-estate developer from building a 150-storey building in his New York district.

Nadler has already stated his intention to investigate Trump's decision to fire attorney general Jeff Sessions, who had recused himself from overseeing the Mueller probe, and subpoena acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker. Critics believe Trump removed Sessions so he could install an attorney general who might prove helpful to the president as he faces an investigation into his team’s dealings with Russia.

Nadler also wants committee hearings on the administration's policy of separating families and detaining minors at the southern border.

Notably, the power to launch impeachment proceedings lies with Nadler's Judiciary Committee. But he cautioned in November that it is still “too early” to talk impeachment, telling The New York Times Magazine that it would be a “momentous step” with “real consequences”.

“You don’t want to tear the country apart,” Nadler said. “You don’t want a situation where for the next 30 years half the country is saying, ‘We won the election; you stole it from us.’ ”

Nevertheless, he said, the Trump presidency has posed “real challenges to the democratic norms that we haven’t seen the likes of since the Civil War”, adding: “we have a real crisis now”.

“The American people have demanded accountability from their government…” Nadler wrote on Twitter in response to the Democrats retaking the House.

Trump “may not like it, but he and his administration will be held accountable to our laws and to the American people”.

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#265591: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:24:39 AM

The major problem with "reduce debt in times of growth" is that the parties advocating for cutting debt tend to be saying to do so by cutting spending exclusively and cutting taxes—AKA, giving you bugger all to work with in an economic downturn because you have to re-establish all the programs shuttered. And reinforcing wealth inequality that makes the consequences of a downturn more severe. They're pathologically opposed to increasing taxation at the time it's best to do it (and not overstimulate the economy)

In other Trump-related stupidity:

Mr Trump reportedly told Ms Pelosi she should support the wall as she was a "good Catholic" and the Vatican City had a wall.

Edited by RainehDaze on Jan 3rd 2019 at 5:25:40 PM

danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#265592: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:28:54 AM

Pretty sure anyone in Italy can literally walk into Vatican City by crossing a street somewhere.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#265593: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:32:31 AM

Your house has a wall and you're a good housekeeper, therefore you should support the Wall. tongue

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#265594: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:33:35 AM

I mean, Trump did just try to lie about Obama's house having a wall (it has a fence like all of the nearby houses).

Disgusted, but not surprised
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#265595: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:35:56 AM

Even funnier if you know about the multiple occasions when the Vatican was sacked.

Or that Francis has all but condemned the wall as sinful.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#265596: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:39:16 AM

Plus, Vatican City has the highest crime rate in the world and not even a proper justice system or prison...(that's naturally because the crimes are committed by visitor on visitors).

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#265597: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:40:33 AM

Trump told a group of lawmakers at a meeting on border security that he can't accept the offer from Democrats to re-open the government because "I would look foolish if I did that,"

Seems a bit late for that, I think.

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#265598: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:50:55 AM

Another troll argument I keep seeing when it comes to the wall is (paraphrased): "If you don't want a wall, when are you going to invite an illegal to move into your house?"

Imca (Veteran)
#265599: Jan 3rd 2019 at 9:57:55 AM

I still think it might be worth it to offer Trump his precious wall in exchange for literally EVERYTHING else. Basically, put him in a Morton's Fork of sorts where he can get his penis monument, but everything else the Republicans stand for is destroyed.

Thats what happened at the start of 2018, he almost got his penis monument.... in exange for DACA.

But he torpedoed it.

Soooo there went the only chance it had.

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#265600: Jan 3rd 2019 at 10:35:21 AM

[up][up]That argument (I guess) comes up sometimes.

Do not obey in advance.

Total posts: 417,856
Top