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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#265351: Dec 31st 2018 at 10:54:21 AM

I disagree they're not on similar scales, both show lack of empathy, none of them taking responsibility for the comments they made, at first. I wonder what good thing people are assuming Hart meant, by saying he would prevent his son from "turning" gay.

Life is unfair...
MrHellboy The Shadow from A world of my own Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Shadow
#265352: Dec 31st 2018 at 10:57:35 AM

I think it was different in that, Kevin Hart said what he said several years ago, whereas Louis CK said this thing very recently But I agree with you completely

The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#265353: Dec 31st 2018 at 10:57:47 AM

In hindsight his jokes about being an awful person probably were not jokes.

Oh, they were jokes.

The lesson I want people to take away from Louis C.K., and have wanted since the harassment thing, is that a joke is not a wacky nonsense phrase tossed out into the universe just to be funny. A joke is a sincere expression told in an absurd way.

People who like to make racist jokes? They make them because they're racist.

People who like to make sexist jokes? They make them because they're sexist.

People who like to make homophobic jokes? They make them because they're homophobic.

A joke is funny because, on some level, you agree with the idea being expressed. When the punchline is "Bitches should get raped" and you think that's hilarious, you think that because you believe that bitches should get raped. A joke whose central message is incomprehensible or offensive to you would never make you laugh.

The reason why the "Just Joking" defense needs to end is not because the person in question wasn't joking. It's because of this: the fact that you said something like "We should kill all the Jews" in a joking format does not change the fact that you think we should kill all the Jews and felt that was an idea that you needed to convey to the world.

So people who joke about being horrible f*cking people? They make those jokes because they're horrible f*cking people. You laugh at them because you think they're funny as hypothetical anecdotes nobody would really do. But that's not what they are. That's never been what they are.

It's time to stop giving passes to horrible ideas and horrible statements just because they were expressed absurdly.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 31st 2018 at 12:02:03 PM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#265354: Dec 31st 2018 at 11:02:32 AM

Retired generals Petraeus and McCrystal have preemptively refused to work under Trump.

Petraeus is a former CIA director and commander of US forces in the Middle East, where he was an early and vocal supporter of the need to start nation building once Saddam was overthrown. He resigned from the CIA after being caught having an affair and it was discovered that he had passed along classified information to the woman he was sleeping with.

Mc Crystal was the commander of US forces in Afghanistan until he publicly bashed the wartime leadership of President Obama.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#265355: Dec 31st 2018 at 11:06:27 AM

Hence why Trump is getting a Boeing exec to replace Mattis; most of the senior military and foreign policy guys won't work with him for various reasons.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#265356: Dec 31st 2018 at 11:33:12 AM

A joke is at its most basic agreeable thing taken to an abused. The comedy comes from the absurdness. You can make jokes about potholes if you add enough absurdity (I’ve done it). Not all comedy is a reflection of genuine beliefs directly, what it is is a demonstration of what one thinks it’s good to joke about.

I have a full set of autism based jokes, but they’re not aimed at autistic people, they’re aimed at placing autistics over neuro-typical people in an absurd way.

CK is more than anything being lazy, he can’t be bothered to make clever comedy so he’s punching down at easy targets for an audience he knows are pre-dispositioned to like him. The ‘comedy’ in his routine comes from the ‘absurdity’ that kids have valid opinions.

We don’t find it funny because we don’t find kids objecting to being shot absurd.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#265357: Dec 31st 2018 at 11:50:01 AM

[up]

I have a full set of autism based jokes, but they’re not aimed at autistic people, they’re aimed at placing autistics over neuro-typical people in an absurd way.

Which means what exactly?

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#265358: Dec 31st 2018 at 12:25:39 PM

I actually am saddened by Petreus refusing to work under Trump. He'd get fired eventually for being an adult in the room but he could redeem his career a little before it happened.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#265359: Dec 31st 2018 at 12:35:35 PM

^^Um, I don't think that is really on topic here...

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#265360: Dec 31st 2018 at 12:48:53 PM

Well anyway, happy New Years Eve everybody.

Edited by megaeliz on Dec 31st 2018 at 3:53:49 PM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#265361: Dec 31st 2018 at 12:56:03 PM

Happy New Year's Eve, and may the next year be at least better than this one.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#265362: Dec 31st 2018 at 3:12:45 PM

I kind of disagree with Tobias, but I kind of don't. You can tell jokes about racism and sexism without being racist or sexist, as long as the punchline is "racism and sexism is bad".

Those Wacky Nazis is a trope that is frequently used to portray Nazis as a punchline, that Nazis are stupid and evil and they should be made fun of.

If I, a Jewish man, say in a joking tone "nah, the Holocaust was totally faked, amirite", the punchline is not "the Holocaust was faked, all the people who believe in it are idiots", the punchline is "the Holocaust was not faked, Holocaust deniers are fucking morans for thinking so". That said, if it's not clear that my intent was for the latter punchline, someone could easily interpret the joke to mean the former punchline.

This has actually happened to me, as a child, I jokingly said that the Holocaust never happened, fully aware that it did and the very idea that it didn't is absurd and farcical, and my teacher scolded me. He was aware that I was joking, but he also informed me that there are a lot of real people that genuinely believe that, which I was horrified to learn.

As another example, as a dumb little child I would hang out with other kids and make "greedy Jew" jokes, from the perspective of "I know Jewish people aren't actually greedy, but I'm making fun of the idea that they are because anti-Semites are stupid". I would take any money offered, not because I'm Jewish, but because I'm poor and need money (and I thought I was clever for tricking them out of their money through humor). My mistake was assuming that everyone else came from the same place of understanding. I grew up around Jewish people, and I knew we were no different than anyone else. As a kid, though, I didn't understand that I was potentially one of the only Jewish people those other kids knew and so I was only reinforcing stereotypes, even when I thought I was making fun of them.

I'm not trying to excuse C.K's behavior and words, I haven't even seen the thing yet and I totally believe he's a fucking asshole, I'm just trying to explain my view on jokes and how they relate to social issues.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Dec 31st 2018 at 4:18:41 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#265363: Dec 31st 2018 at 3:24:36 PM

TL:DR

Jokes with punchlines making fun of bigots and jokes with punchlines making fun of victims of bigotry can be worded very similarly, and it's important to make a distinction between the two and make clear what the intent of the joke is.

tsstevens Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did from Reading tropes such as Righting Great Wrongs Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did
#265364: Dec 31st 2018 at 3:56:47 PM
Thumped: This post was thumped by moderation to preserve the dignity of the author.
Currently reading up My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#265365: Dec 31st 2018 at 3:59:56 PM

[up]I don't understand what you're saying.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#265366: Dec 31st 2018 at 4:01:26 PM

something about christmas and trump?

his post is an enigma

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#265367: Dec 31st 2018 at 4:02:19 PM

[up][up],[up] Seconded Thirded. Could you rephrase that post, please?

Edited by Rationalinsanity on Dec 31st 2018 at 8:02:58 AM

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#265368: Dec 31st 2018 at 4:10:36 PM

I think he's intoxicated,in which case step away from the keyboard

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Reflextion from a post-sanity world (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
#265369: Dec 31st 2018 at 4:20:47 PM

EDIT: Nevermind, the post under discussion got thumped. Just as well.

Edited by Reflextion on Dec 31st 2018 at 7:21:18 AM

Someone did tell me life was going to be this way.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#265370: Dec 31st 2018 at 4:26:45 PM

Jokes about racism aren't the same thing as racist jokes. The latter punch down.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#265371: Dec 31st 2018 at 4:27:05 PM

Happy new year from Europe! I have good hopes for the next year, with this fantastic and properly representative new group of congresspeople elect, which can stop Congress from being a "check" aka rubber stamp for the president.

Life is unfair...
tsstevens Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did from Reading tropes such as Righting Great Wrongs Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did
#265372: Dec 31st 2018 at 4:32:23 PM

Farron Cousins on the Ring of Fire, a Youtube channel that covers Trump's antics, today reported that the latest news on the presidential meltdown is instead of listening to his experts during briefings he is instead listening to Fox & Friends and going by their advice as he is being counseled by generals and financial experts and wall architects.

Say Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff Tom Crocker said Trump could afford the F35 or the wall, not both. Trump would ignore that, watch Fox say how great he is, and say how great he is and they are going to have both. Now the video by nature is critical of Trump so do be warned.

Now if you need more details I would be happy to provide a script.

Currently reading up My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#265373: Dec 31st 2018 at 4:36:09 PM

We dont need a script

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
nombretomado (Season 1) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#265374: Dec 31st 2018 at 4:40:45 PM

I feel like we're beyond the point where the fact that the POTUS listens to Fox more than experienced advisors would be shocking, unfortunately.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#265375: Dec 31st 2018 at 4:42:55 PM

Yeah, that piece of info never surprised me-in fact, that alternative would have.

Leviticus 19:34

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