TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#264926: Dec 23rd 2018 at 5:09:48 AM

If it's like the AG, there can only be an 'Acting' for 180 days.

"You can reply to this Message!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#264927: Dec 23rd 2018 at 7:41:32 AM

The deputy will have already been approved by Congress so they can just be promoted, it’s a non-aproved acting person that has a time limit.

Also the resignation dosnt kick in till February.

As for Syria, for the last few years the US hasn’t been seriously backing an attempt to remove Assad, it’s been backing the Kurds (who are largely for either independnace or mroe autonomy from Assad, not his removal) and a few reasonable rebel groups in the south (who I think are all dead now) who have never had a serious chance at removing Assad.

The rebels seeking to remove Assad that and US backing all lost with the fall of Aleppo, what’s left are the Kurds, AQ, the Turkish backed groups (who are just seeking to control part of Syria for Turkey) and a few scattered groups with no power.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#264928: Dec 23rd 2018 at 8:07:19 AM

Yes, I'm serious. It was passed by executive order in 1976 by Gerald Ford that 'no employee of the United States government is to engage in conspiracy to, or attempts to, assassinate foreign nationals'. Trump was literally giving an illegal order, and the military acted accordingly by firmly but politely ignoring an order that was not Trump's to give.

Bill Clinton more or less removed that rule, followed by Bush and Obama regarding Osama Bin Ladin as well as his conspirators. I remember that it was addressed in an article of TIME magazine that Bill had sidestepped the rule in order to authorize an attack on him—which the writer thought was extreme since terrorists were just criminals.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Dec 23rd 2018 at 8:08:19 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#264929: Dec 23rd 2018 at 8:14:56 AM

I'd argue sidestepped isn't blatantly ignoring/breaking.

Regardless of any of that, though, do you really want the military simply obeying an order to assassinate someone, anyone, without question? Even if the answer to that is a "yes", would you just as really want them doing it for someone we know is as ignorant, short-sighted, and untrustworthy as Donald Trump?

Edited by sgamer82 on Dec 23rd 2018 at 9:15:43 AM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#264930: Dec 23rd 2018 at 8:19:08 AM

Worth noting that executive orders are not laws.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#264931: Dec 23rd 2018 at 8:44:53 AM

[up][up][up]There is a *tiny* difference between Osama Bin Laden, a outlaw terrorist leader and the (on paper) legitimate leader of a foreign nation.

"You can reply to this Message!"
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#264932: Dec 23rd 2018 at 9:00:54 AM

@Silas - Actually Trump just announced that Mattis is gone on Jan 1. His deputy will take over.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#264934: Dec 23rd 2018 at 9:08:21 AM

[up]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1076881816462737408?s=19

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#264935: Dec 23rd 2018 at 9:11:57 AM

Uh-huh. And what do we know about the deputy?

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#264936: Dec 23rd 2018 at 9:15:53 AM

This guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_M._Shanahan

He spent most of his career at Boeing, looks like your typical corporate suit. Easily confirmed, so you could do a lot worse.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#264937: Dec 23rd 2018 at 9:20:55 AM

[up]As long as he isn't another Bolton.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#264938: Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:00:02 AM

Re: mysterious Subpoena fight:

Wonder which country that could possibly be?

I know this was in jest, it’s actually a better question than you think. Russian banks usually don’t cooperate with American subpoenas anyway, so pursuing it this far would be unusual to say the least. It’s more likely to be from a Country that usually does.

Edited by megaeliz on Dec 23rd 2018 at 1:35:06 PM

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#264939: Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:05:48 AM

Deutsche Bank?

"You can reply to this Message!"
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#264940: Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:13:57 AM

[up]HSBC? RBS?

Edited by Euodiachloris on Dec 23rd 2018 at 6:14:23 PM

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#264941: Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:18:25 AM

[up] Maybe from some middle Eastern Country such as Saudi Arabia, Qatar, or UAE? I know Trump is entangled with them as well.

It’s a state owned bank, so that narrows it down a bit.

Edited by megaeliz on Dec 23rd 2018 at 1:24:12 PM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#264942: Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:19:50 AM

Maybe it's an American bank,maybe

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#264943: Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:27:09 AM

It’s aparently state owned, which rules out most western banks.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#264944: Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:27:57 AM

Someone in this thread made a case for why it wasn't a German bank, but for the life of me I can't remember what it was.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#264945: Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:31:44 AM

[up] Deutsche Bank is publically traded and has already cooperated with Mueller’s subpoenas.

Actually, I’m wondering if it could be related to a claim in the dossier.

A dossier with unverified claims about President Donald Trump's ties to Russia contained allegations that Igor Sechin, the CEO of Russia's state oil company, offered former Trump ally Carter aPage and his associates the brokerage of a 19% stake in the company in exchange for the lifting of US sanctions on Russia.

The dossier says the offer was made in July, when Page was in Moscow giving a speech at the Higher Economic School. The claim was sourced to "a trusted compatriot and close associate" of Sechin, according to the dossier's author, former British spy Christopher Steele.

"Sechin's associate said that the Rosneft president was so keen to lift personal and corporate western sanctions imposed on the company, that he offered Page and his associates the brokerage of up to a 19 per cent (privatised) stake in Rosneft," the dossier said. "In return, Page had expressed interest and confirmed that were Trump elected US president, then sanctions on Russia would be lifted."

Four months before the intelligence community briefed Trump, then-President Barack Obama, then-Vice President Joe Biden, and the nation's top lawmakers on the dossier's claims — most of which have not been independently verified but are being investigated by US intelligence agencies — a US intelligence source told Yahoo's Michael Isikoff that Sechin met with Page during Page's three-day trip to Moscow. Sechin, the source told Yahoo, raised the issue of the US lifting sanctions on Russia under Trump.

After mid-October, the dossier said, Sechin predicted that it would no longer be possible for Trump to win the presidency, so he "put feelers out to other business and political contacts" to purchase a stake in Rosneft.

Rosneft then scrambled to find a foreign investor, holding talks with more than 30 potential buyers from Europe, the US, Asia, and the Middle East. The company signed a deal on December 7 to sell 19.5% of shares, or roughly $11 billion, to the multinational commodity trader Glencore Plc and Qatar's state-owned wealth fund. Qatar's sovereign wealth fund is Glencore's largest shareholder.

The "11th hour deal" was "so last minute," Reuters reported, "that it appeared it would not close in time to meet the government's deadline for booking money in the budget from the sale."

The purchase amounted to the biggest foreign investment in Russia since US sanctions took effect in 2014. It showed that "there are some forces in the world that are ready to help Russia to circumvent the [West's] sanction regime," said Lilia Shevtsova, an associate fellow in the Russia and Eurasia program at Chatham House

Edited by megaeliz on Dec 23rd 2018 at 1:34:00 PM

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#264946: Dec 23rd 2018 at 11:05:39 AM

Germany has

I. Private banks/Publicly traded ones of which Deutsche Bank is an example

II. Cooperative Banks where every Accountholder is also a equal Shareholder. One Accountholder, one vote.

and finally

III. Public Banks

As for Deutsche Bank? Here's their biggest Shareholders

"You can reply to this Message!"
Ingonyama Since: Jan, 2001
#264947: Dec 23rd 2018 at 2:40:08 PM

[up][up] I suggested Rosneft as a possibility a few days ago. Since it was recently announced that Mueller was focusing in on the sanction-lifting angle of the Trump campaign and its connections with Russia, this becomes an even more likely possibility—the simple fact we know Mueller is looking into that makes it believable Rosneft is facing legal pressure, and in case the subpoenas do fall through, Mueller would need the information another way which would also explain the publicly-known information that he is questioning Trump's people about the sanctions.

If it is Rosneft, all the secrecy and the fact they're fighting this so hard suggests that once again there is accuracy to the dossier.

Edited by Ingonyama on Dec 23rd 2018 at 2:45:21 AM

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#264948: Dec 23rd 2018 at 3:12:27 PM

[up]. Or the Quartari Investment Authority. They were the ones to purchase the stake in Rosneft that was originally offered to Trump campaign staffers, and claimed to have incriminating evidence against Kushner, but refuse to turn it over to American Authorities, for fear of damaging their relationship with the Trump Adminstration.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#264949: Dec 23rd 2018 at 8:19:24 PM

Say, why did Trump decide so suddenly to pull out troops from Syria and Afghanistan, anyway? You'd think he'd be concerned about such an order making him look like a cowardly weakling of a POTUS.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#264950: Dec 23rd 2018 at 8:22:00 PM

  1. He did promise to do so during the campaign, until someone talked him out of it because he listens to whoever's in the room last.
  2. It's a distraction.

Edited by TheRoguePenguin on Dec 23rd 2018 at 8:22:38 AM


Total posts: 417,856
Top