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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

tsstevens Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did from Reading tropes such as Righting Great Wrongs Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did
#264676: Dec 19th 2018 at 7:01:16 PM

It will go as far as extremist Trump supporters arming up if it even goes that far but no attempt at starting something in retaliation for what happens, but that's as far as it will go? I sincerely hope that is the case.

Hmm shutting down the government, trying to bring in state sec TV, internment camps for undesireables, trying to get rid of what is seen as the inferior races, I think we have all the boxes for Trump Bingo.

Edited by tsstevens on Dec 20th 2018 at 2:04:07 AM

Currently reading up My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#264677: Dec 19th 2018 at 7:06:19 PM

I don’t understand what you’re saying.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#264678: Dec 19th 2018 at 7:19:00 PM

There’s not going to be a civil war. Trump is horrific, but he hasn’t gotten close to Hitler territory yet. Let’s be reasonable here.

They should have sent a poet.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#264679: Dec 19th 2018 at 7:19:34 PM

Trump is like Hitler is the translation.

I'd argue he's more like FDR's worst qualities combined with what he was accused of by his enemies of being.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#264680: Dec 19th 2018 at 7:20:37 PM

I mean, Hitler comparisons aren’t really necessary when Trump openly gloats about locking little kids in camps.

tsstevens Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did from Reading tropes such as Righting Great Wrongs Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did
#264681: Dec 19th 2018 at 7:24:06 PM

You're right. We don't need the Hitler comparison. He does enough damage on his own.

Currently reading up My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#264682: Dec 19th 2018 at 7:25:36 PM

[up][up] I’d argue that’s like saying 20 and 200 are the same number because they both start with 2. Look at what was going on in Nazi Germany in the run up to the holocaust. Sure, in the broadest-strokes sense that certain people are being put in camps somewhere there’s a similarity but that’s where the similarities end.

Things in the US today are nowhere near as dire as they were in Nazi Germany.

Edited by archonspeaks on Dec 19th 2018 at 7:26:03 AM

They should have sent a poet.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#264683: Dec 19th 2018 at 7:25:56 PM

Trump is more about punishing people for being losers (in his mind) than any sort of formal ideology. He's a populist authoritarian, but so were a lot of historical figures.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#264684: Dec 19th 2018 at 9:37:27 PM

Russian State Media is all over the US pulling out of Syria, of course, since Trump just Gift Wrapped it as an early Christmas gift to Putin.

Am I right in seeing Syria as a Cold War Style geopolitical proxy conflict?

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#264685: Dec 19th 2018 at 10:12:47 PM

Secret Experiment in Alabama Senate Race Imitated Russian Tactics

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/19/us/alabama-senate-roy-jones-russia.html

An excerpt:

As Russia’s online election machinations came to light last year, a group of Democratic tech experts decided to try out similarly deceptive tactics in the fiercely contested Alabama Senate race, according to people familiar with the effort and a report on its results.

The secret project, carried out on Facebook and Twitter, was likely too small to have a significant effect on the race, in which the Democratic candidate it was designed to help, Doug Jones, edged out the Republican, Roy S. Moore. But it was a sign that American political operatives of both parties have paid close attention to the Russian methods, which some fear may come to taint elections in the United States.

One participant in the Alabama project, Jonathon Morgan, is the chief executive of New Knowledge, a small cyber security firm that wrote a scathing account of Russia’s social media operations in the 2016 election that was released this week by the Senate Intelligence Committee.

An internal report on the Alabama effort, obtained by The New York Times, says explicitly that it “experimented with many of the tactics now understood to have influenced the 2016 elections.”

The project’s operators created a Facebook page on which they posed as conservative Alabamians, using it to try to divide Republicans and even to endorse a write-in candidate to draw votes from Mr. Moore. It involved a scheme to link the Moore campaign to thousands of Russian accounts that suddenly began following the Republican candidate on Twitter, a development that drew national media attention.

“We orchestrated an elaborate ‘false flag’ operation that planted the idea that the Moore campaign was amplified on social media by a Russian botnet,” the report says.

Mr. Morgan said in an interview that the Russian botnet ruse “does not ring a bell,” adding that others had worked on the effort and had written the report. He said he saw the project as “a small experiment” designed to explore how certain online tactics worked, not to affect the election.

Mr. Morgan said he could not account for the claims in the report that the project sought to “enrage and energize Democrats” and “depress turnout” among Republicans, partly by emphasizing accusations that Mr. Moore had pursued teenage girls when he was a prosecutor in his 30s.

The article goes on to mention the project's bigger was $100,000 and that all indications are the Jones campaign had no awareness of any of this.

Edited by sgamer82 on Dec 19th 2018 at 11:15:18 AM

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#264686: Dec 19th 2018 at 10:28:37 PM

Goddamn idiots. Way to provide the one corroborated example for the Republicans to point to for all time while screeching about dishonest election tactics.

It's been fun.
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#264687: Dec 19th 2018 at 11:19:26 PM

That said, they can't whine about it without admitting the same was done for Trump, since it was explicitly based on that.

So it will further bothsiderism, most likely, which is damaging enough.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#264688: Dec 20th 2018 at 3:53:37 AM

It's also worth noting (to the people fretting about civil wars and whatnot) that Germany didn't have a Civil War when a certain pencil-moustached Austrian colonel assumed power.

And no, he's still not Adolf Hitler. Mitch Mc Connel makes a pretty good case for being Paul von Hindenburg, but Trump's no Adolf Hitler.

[up]x4 Not really. I mean, in the sense that you have a regime being backed by a world power (Russia), but US efforts haven't really been focused on removing Assad from power, they've been focusing on containing the breakaway state that's threatening their Iraqi regime's stability. US troops in Syria have mostly been there to back up the Iraqi forces and destabilizing IS forces in Syria. All plans to replace Assad by backing the rebels were discontinued when the whole 'Islamic State' thing happened.

This isn't the Spanish Civil War, is what I'm saying.

Edited by math792d on Dec 20th 2018 at 12:56:27 PM

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#264689: Dec 20th 2018 at 4:08:37 AM

> Secret Experiment in Alabama Senate Race Imitated Russian Tactics

I can see why they're doing it,if you want to win badly you'll do anything to win,and when the other side is doing and rubbing it in your face constantly it's extremely tempting

Edited by Ultimatum on Dec 20th 2018 at 4:10:27 AM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#264690: Dec 20th 2018 at 4:13:34 AM

I generally frown upon Nazi comparisons (barring of course calling things like actual Neo-Nazi and alt right marches out for being Nazis).

Besides, I think it'd be more apt to compare what's happening now to the internment of Japanese Americans which actually happened in the USA.

Disgusted, but not surprised
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#264691: Dec 20th 2018 at 4:31:45 AM

I don't think Hindenburg is a good comparator for the Kentucky Turtle as the latter has always acted like a calculating amoral chessmaster rather than like a conservative half-ideologue. Sure, Hindenburg also had some aspects of the former but only a few.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#264692: Dec 20th 2018 at 4:44:52 AM

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_von_Papen for ol' Turtle?

"You can reply to this Message!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#264693: Dec 20th 2018 at 4:50:08 AM

von Papen always struck me as a wannabe chessmaster who ended up being a chesspiece which I don't think is what happened to the Kentucky Turtle, he seems to be leveraging Trump well enough.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#264694: Dec 20th 2018 at 4:50:12 AM

Hearing about Democrats imitating Russian tactics in Alabama is more than disappointing, especially since you know this just adds more fuel to the "BOTH SIDES!!!!" fire. And it's not like you need a lot - usually only a drop will suffice - but Alabama Dems have pretty much poured a whole can onto it.

i'm tired, my friend
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#264695: Dec 20th 2018 at 4:56:20 AM

Yeah, I can't agree with claims the Alabama experiment didn't affect the outcome of the election. Not when, iirc, Jones won by barely a point.

math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#264696: Dec 20th 2018 at 5:45:13 AM

I don't think Hindenburg is a good comparator for the Kentucky Turtle as the latter has always acted like a calculating amoral chessmaster rather than like a conservative half-ideologue. Sure, Hindenburg also had some aspects of the former but only a few.

Both of them have fulfilled the role of being the gravediggers of democracy. Democracy only works when people within the system act in general good faith, and when emergency powers designed for, well, emergencies, are confined to being used when the actual safety of the country is at stake rather than, essentially, as an authoritarian stalling tactic until you have a majority. Paul von Hindenburg abused every clause in the Weimar constitution to bring about the desired outcome of a return to German authoritarianism. Mitch Mc Connell abused every clause in the United States constitution to stonewall Obama until the Republicans couldn't be stopped.

I'm not comparing their personalities, I'm comparing the outcomes of their actions.

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#264697: Dec 20th 2018 at 5:47:44 AM

Not the outcome, but the means (I mean thank God that Mc Connel hasnt been as successful as Ol' H was). Mc C is attempting to pull off more or less the same thing (for more or less the same class of people) but this is a different political context than Weimar Germany, so comparisons are always going to be indirect and weak.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#264698: Dec 20th 2018 at 5:59:32 AM

I think it is worth to study the Weimar Republic and the mechanism behind Nazism. I think it is important to point out the parallels, especially in terms of rhetoric and the systematic undermining of a state. But it will never be completely the same - if for no other reason that the people in the Weimar republic had no idea where this could lead to. We should know better.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#264699: Dec 20th 2018 at 6:02:19 AM

History is extremely useful, but ppl stress the similarities at the expense of the differences.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#264700: Dec 20th 2018 at 6:04:18 AM

[up][up] I feel the key word there is should know better, because there's no guarantee we do.


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