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MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#264526: Dec 17th 2018 at 5:28:56 PM

The issue, assuming I'm not missing anything, is that any spending bill is just that, a bill, and the process for those includes getting through both Senate and House of Representatives then being signed by the President. If the President vetoes the law, the Senate has the option to override that veto.
... So why is everyone acting like Trump's refusal is the end-all-be-all of whether or not a government shutdown happens? Is there something that makes it unlikely for the Senate to overturn his veto?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#264527: Dec 17th 2018 at 5:30:05 PM

Overturning a presidential veto needs... what, a 2/3 majority in the Senate?

Basically it requires the Republicans to turn on their own president.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#264528: Dec 17th 2018 at 5:34:33 PM

The Founders didn't factor into their plans that someone as petulant, inept, and idiotic as Trump would be president or that Congress would be half controlled by sycophants to said petulant idiot's party.

Basically, there's a safety measure for things like this, but it requires Congress to not be Republican ideologues.

TechPriest90 Servant of the Omnissiah from Collegia Titanica, Mars, Sol System Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Servant of the Omnissiah
#264529: Dec 17th 2018 at 5:37:35 PM

I mean, in a Parliamentary Democracy (like Britain or where I'm from) losing a supply bill means the government falls and fresh elections called.

The American model is more robust, sure - makes sure the government stays in place even if that happens. But it's shit for government employees who won't get paid - and most government employees don't exactly hit pay dirt on salary day.

And given that I work for people who service government installations, that's something I can see directly - it makes me super sad, given how hard they work and how thankless their job is.

It's just so mean-spirited. Especially around Christmas.

I hold the secrets of the machine.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#264530: Dec 17th 2018 at 5:42:02 PM

Russians have been attacking Mueller.

They've been posting propaganda online which, among other things, tried to tie Mueller to Islamic terrorist groups.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#264531: Dec 17th 2018 at 5:50:42 PM

Yeah, I'm sure they absolutely loved being chucked in prison for decades.

Fuck off and come up with plausible lies Moscow.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#264532: Dec 17th 2018 at 5:57:01 PM

[up][up][up][up]In fairness, this kind of petulant behavior didn't start with Trump. He's just a whole lot worse about it. We can thank Newt Gingrich for Republicans as a whole deciding crashing the government was an acceptable response to not getting everything they want.

HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#264533: Dec 17th 2018 at 6:12:58 PM

If Trump loses 2020, how do you suppose he'd spend his last days in the White House as he's still POTUS as there's a time gap in-between the election and the election winner being sworn in?

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#264534: Dec 17th 2018 at 6:14:27 PM

Reenacting the Steele dossier.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#264535: Dec 17th 2018 at 6:24:00 PM

Trying his best to permanently Trumpify the decor.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
TechPriest90 Servant of the Omnissiah from Collegia Titanica, Mars, Sol System Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Servant of the Omnissiah
#264537: Dec 17th 2018 at 6:27:01 PM

Making enough of a mess that the other guy can't fix a damn thing. In time honoured tradition of screwing the incoming government.

Isn't that right, Wisconsin GOP?

Anyhow, been seeing a lot of exit polls putting Biden as the front runner. How likely is it that he'll be running?

Edited by TechPriest90 on Dec 17th 2018 at 9:27:55 AM

I hold the secrets of the machine.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#264538: Dec 17th 2018 at 6:28:34 PM

Short of firing nukes on Washington, there's very little Trump could do to strip the executive of power in that sort of timescale.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#264539: Dec 17th 2018 at 6:28:48 PM

https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2018/12/17/day-697/

    Day 697: A form of compromise 
1/ The Russian disinformation and influence campaign during the 2016 presidential election was more far-reaching than originally understood, according to the findings of two independent groups of researchers tasked by the bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee. The report found that "active and ongoing interference operations remain on several platforms," including one campaign to support for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and influence opinions on the Syrian Civil War. The Internet Research Agency created social media accounts under fake names and spread its messages across Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, You Tube, Reddit, Tumblr, Pinterest, Vine and Google+, and other platforms. As attention was focused on Facebook and Twitter in 2017, the Russians shifted much of their activity to Instagram. The Internet Research Agency is owned by Yevgeny Prigozhin, an ally of Putin's. Prigozhin and a dozen Internet Research Agency employees were indicted last February as part of Robert Mueller's investigation. In particular, the campaigns urged the African-American community "to boycott the election and focus on other issues instead," while messaging to conservative and right-wing voters "patriotic and anti-immigrant slogans" designed to "elicit outrage […] about liberal appeasement of 'others' at the expense of U.S. citizens, and [to] encourage them to vote for Trump." The report concludes: "What is clear is that all of the messaging clearly sought to benefit the Republican Party — and specifically Donald Trump." (New York Times / Washington Post / Associated Press / Bloomberg)

https://apnews.com/8890210ce2ce4256a7df6e4ab65c33d3

Rep. Adam Schiff wants to subpoena Trump's records with Deutsche Bank because he believes they could expose "a form of compromise" with Russia. Deutsche Bank has a long relationship with Trump, as well as Russia. "Well," Schiff said, "the concern about Deutsche Bank is that they have a history of laundering Russian money. And this, apparently, was the one bank that was willing to do business with the Trump Organization." He added: "If this is a form of compromise, it needs to be exposed." Schiff is the likely incoming chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. (NBC News)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/schiff-said-he-wants-obtain-trump-s-deutsche-bank-records-n948541

2/ Rudy Giuliani suggested that Mueller's investigation is "done" and all that's left is to investigate are "parking tickets and jaywalking." However, when asked if Roger Stone ever gave Trump a "heads-up" about the Wiki Leaks publication of emails concerning Hillary Clinton and the DNC, Giuliani responded: "No, he didn't, no." After a moment of silence, Giuliani softened his response: "I don't believe so. But again, if Roger Stone gave anybody a heads-up about Wiki Leaks' leaks, that's not a crime. It would be like giving him a heads-up that the Times is going to print something. One the — the crime, this is why this thing is so weird, strange. The crime is conspiracy to hack; collusion is not a crime; it doesn't exist." (ABC News)

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/rudy-giuliani-investigations-surrounding-president-donald-trump-left/story?id=59839387

A guide to the 17 known Trump-Russia investigations. Two years after Trump won the presidency, nearly every organization he has led in the past decade is under investigation and there are known cooperators in almost every single one of the open cases, from Michael Cohen to National Enquirer chief David Pecker to former Paul Manafort aides Sam Patten and Rick Gates. (WIRED / Washington Post / Axios)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mounting-legal-threats-surround-trump-as-nearly-every-organization-he-has-led-is-under-investigation/2018/12/15/4cfb4482-ffbb-11e8-862a-b6a6f3ce8199_story.html

3/ Two former business associates of Michael Flynn were arrested and charged with conspiring to "covertly and unlawfully" influence U.S. politicians on behalf of Turkey. Bijan Rafiekian, who also goes by the name Bijan Kian, was the vice-chairman of the Flynn Intel Group and worked with Flynn to have cleric Fethullah Gülen extradited from the U.S. to Turkey. Ekim Alptekin was charged with failing to register as a foreign agent and making false statements to the FBI. Mueller referred the Turkey case to prosecutors in Northern Virginia earlier this year. (The Guardian / Associated Press / New York Times / Washington Post)

https://apnews.com/6e4dfd935c4a408b8383402f4d9a54e9

👀 Shutdown watch: Trump doesn't plan to support a one- or two-week funding extension to avert a partial government shutdown over the holidays. Trump continues to demand $5 billion to build his border wall. Democrats, meanwhile, insist on spending no more than $1.37 billion on border fencing. Last week Trump said he would be "proud" to shut the government if it will force them to give in to his demands. The House is out of session until Wednesday and a shutdown will occur if nothing is passed by the end of Friday. (Bloomberg)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-17/trump-is-said-to-oppose-short-term-funding-to-avoid-shutdown

poll/ 62% of Americans say Trump isn't telling the truth about the Russia investigation. 43% approve of the job Trump is doing as president compared with 54% who disapprove. (NBC News)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/poll-62-percent-say-trump-isn-t-telling-truth-russia-n948226

Notables. A federal judge in Texas struck down the entire Affordable Care Act on the grounds that "the individual mandate is unconstitutional" and the rest of the law cannot stand without it in a case brought by 20 Republican state attorneys general. Legal experts say the ruling won't immediately affect Americans' health coverage, and a group of states led by California is already vowing to appeal. (New York Times / CNN / Washington Post / ABC News)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/14/politics/texas-aca-lawsuit/index.html

The Justice Department asked a federal appeals court to throw out a lawsuit accusing Trump of violating the anti-corruption provisions in the U.S. Constitution after the trial judge ruled the case could proceed. The lawsuit, accuses Trump of illegally benefiting from his family's business, seeks to define the meaning of emoluments. (Reuters / New York Times)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-emoluments-idUSKBN1OG276

Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke submitted his resignation and will depart the Trump administration at the end of the year. Zinke is currently facing multiple ethics investigations into his travel, political activity and potential conflicts of interest. (CNN / Bloomberg / Washington Post)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/15/politics/ryan-zinke/index.html

Ben Carson's top deputy at HUD resigned. Pam Patenaude ran operations at the agency. (NBC News)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/pam-patenaude-resigns-hud-top-deputy-ben-carson-n948781

Trump named Mick Mulvaney as acting White House chief of staff, ending a public week-long search for his third chief of staff in two years. Mulvaney is currently the director of the Office of Management and Budget. (Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-names-budget-director-mick-mulvaney-as-acting-white-house-chief-of-staff/2018/12/14/4d32a516-ffee-11e8-ad40-cdfd0e0dd65a_story.html

Shortly before the 2016 presidential election, Mulvaney called Trump "a terrible human being." In the video, Mulvaney says he's supporting Trump "as enthusiastically as I can given the fact I think he's a terrible human being." (The Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/15/mick-mulvaney-donald-trump-video-terrible-human

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#264540: Dec 17th 2018 at 6:32:36 PM

[up]x7 Act like a toddler being told that they can’t have the shiny new toy, before being dragged out kicking and kicking and screaming by secret service.

Edited by megaeliz on Dec 17th 2018 at 9:36:39 AM

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#264541: Dec 17th 2018 at 6:42:05 PM

For what it's worth, contrary to popular belief, the President cannot just unilaterally order a nuclear strike. So even that wouldn't work.

Leviticus 19:34
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#264542: Dec 17th 2018 at 6:42:47 PM

Indeed, but that's still more likely than somehow altering the powers of the presidency on his way out in a way the incoming president can't just revert.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#264543: Dec 17th 2018 at 6:47:41 PM

In all seriousness, he might try and issue an excutive order disbanding Congress and the courts and declaring himself God King Emperor President for Life Trump. Whether or not anything would come from it is another matter entirely.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#264544: Dec 17th 2018 at 6:48:56 PM

I think he’d try all legal avenues to (metaphorically) burn the place down on his way out, and when they results in the cabinet looking to invoke the 25th he will escalate to the super petty like taking a shit on the resolute desk before the secret service drag him out.

There is a serious risk of a lame duck Trump trying to start a war on his way out, it’s why I don’t think him being defeated in 2020 is enough, because it gives him a transition to do as much damage as possible.

Edited by Silasw on Dec 17th 2018 at 4:01:00 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TechPriest90 Servant of the Omnissiah from Collegia Titanica, Mars, Sol System Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Servant of the Omnissiah
#264545: Dec 17th 2018 at 6:55:12 PM

[up] For some reason, that "super petty" thing he'd probably do sent me into hysterics.

Of course, it's super bad if he does that - they might ask him to clean it up himself, and then he'd go and shake hands with everyone on the way out. Imagine that.

I hold the secrets of the machine.
thok That's Dr. Title, thank you! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
#264546: Dec 17th 2018 at 7:54:42 PM

Unlike in Wisconsin and North Carolina, the Republicans won't control the legislative branch in a hypothetical 2020 lame duck session; the time to worry about a sudden change in rules is right now.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#264547: Dec 17th 2018 at 8:03:45 PM

The Republicans have become the Enclave.

We need to worry if they start building underground Vaults.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#264548: Dec 17th 2018 at 8:32:26 PM

tried to tie Mueller to Islamic terrorist groups

BAHAHAHA

Do not obey in advance.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#264549: Dec 17th 2018 at 8:46:26 PM

[up]Is almost insulting the use lies so bad and so stupid.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#264550: Dec 18th 2018 at 12:50:07 AM

Regarding Russian influencing, Nate Silver has been sceptical that it was such a big deal, and retweeted this remarkable explanation:

A reminder that news outlets have something of a vested interest in hyping Russian influence on voters, as it lets them off the hook for their terrible editorial decisions to treat email server management practices as an existential threat to the Republic.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

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