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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#264501: Dec 17th 2018 at 10:28:09 AM

Amazing, they thought Trump was lying about the one thing that he came up with himself and stuck with all the time.

That's astonishingly gullible.

Here was a Democrat telling a Republican that a policy would cost too much.

Hello, person that does not understand that government-spent money actually does things in an economy.

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#264502: Dec 17th 2018 at 10:32:22 AM

[up]

'I never thought leopards would eat MY face,' sobs woman who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.

Like, I get it, Stange Bedfellows and all, but still.

Edited by megaeliz on Dec 17th 2018 at 1:41:16 PM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#264503: Dec 17th 2018 at 10:42:40 AM

Articles like that are why I cancelled my NY Times subscription. Did someone place a bet to see who can publish the most softly lit profiles of Trump voters???

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#264504: Dec 17th 2018 at 10:44:00 AM

[up]. The New York Times hasn’t done that in a while, actually.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#264505: Dec 17th 2018 at 10:44:18 AM

Let's be fair, at least he had enough sense to realize his mistake in being so blindly optimistic and has resolved to not vote for Trump the next time he runs for any political office. Hopefully he'll also vote against any Texan Republican who is obviously going to gleefully enable Trump's horribleness rather than constrain it out of pragmatism.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#264506: Dec 17th 2018 at 11:13:27 AM

I mean, at best he won't vote Trump again and will just think "well, I should vote for a REAL Republican." Because his issue isn't with Republicans, it's with Trump, and we all know that Trump is the GOP just without a filter.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#264507: Dec 17th 2018 at 11:23:49 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/16/us/politics/congress-trump-shutdown.html

A Shutdown Looms. Can the G.O.P. Get Lawmakers to Show Up to Vote?

Just days before a deadline to avert a partial government shutdown, President Trump, Democratic leaders and the Republican-controlled Congress are at a stalemate over the president’s treasured border wall. But House Republican leaders are also confronting a more mundane and awkward problem: Their vanquished and retiring members are sick and tired of Washington and don’t want to show up anymore to vote.

Call it the revenge of the lame ducks. Many lawmakers, relegated to cubicles as incoming members take their offices, have been skipping votes in the weeks since House Republicans were swept from power in the midterm elections, and Republican leaders are unsure whether they will ever return.

It is perhaps a fitting end to a Congress that has showcased the untidy politics of the Trump era: Even if the president ultimately embraces a solution that avoids a shutdown, House Republican leaders do not know whether they will have the votes to pass it.

The uncertainty does not end there. With funding for parts of the government like the Department of Homeland Security set to lapse at midnight on Friday, Mr. Trump and top Republicans appear to have no definite plan to keep the doors open. It is clear that as Democrats uniformly oppose the president’s demand for $5 billion for his border wall, any bill that includes that funding cannot pass the Senate, and might face defeat in the House, too.

“That’s me with my hands up in the air,” Senator John Cornyn of Texas, the No. 2 Senate Republican, told reporters last week, in case there was any confusion about the meaning of the exaggerated shrug he offered when asked how the logjam might be broken. “There is no discernible plan — none that’s been disclosed.”

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#264508: Dec 17th 2018 at 2:37:35 PM

Goddamn this would be easy to spin to make Trump look more awful from his supporters pov. Just have a reporter ask "why can't you pay for it yourself?" and his base would lap it right up. Doubt it would happen though. The best thing that could happen is if the shutdown happens and Trump caved first. By that I mean the best possible outcome in our current situation.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#264509: Dec 17th 2018 at 3:04:30 PM

I just wanted to re-emphasize this from the previous page:

"People have asked me, “Didn’t you listen to Trump when he said that he would build a wall?” I didn’t take the idea seriously during the campaign. I knew he couldn’t get Mexico to pay it — that’d be like asking Hurricane Harvey to foot the bill for rebuilding Houston — and thought it was just talk: another candidate making big promises he couldn’t keep. I never thought it would actually happen.

By backing the wall, my party has abandoned the conservative principles I treasure: less government, less spending, and respect for the law and private property. The wall is expected to cost between $8 billion and $67 billion to build, and its rushed construction requires the waiver of 28 federal laws meant to protect clean air and water, wildlife habitat and historical artifacts. As I followed the news [last week], I was amazed to find myself agreeing with Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), who called the project “immoral, ineffective and expensive.” Here was a Democrat telling a Republican that a policy would cost too much."

So he voted for Trump out of cynicism. Believing that he wouldn't do what he said he would do, because no politician ever does that. He seemingly voted more out of party loyalty than any heartfelt attraction to Trump. In another section, he describes going to a more democratic area, and joining in a march against the wall.

What I get out of this is that not only could we reasonably flip Trump voters to a democratic candidate, but we just might get many of them to switch parties long term. And from what I can tell, it wouldn't require any "centrism" either—he wants to keep gov spending under control, sure, but what he really seems to desire most of all is a candidate who is credibly honest, and respects the rights of property owners. We couldnt get all such Trump voters, maybe not even most of them, but we can enough of them to win.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#264510: Dec 17th 2018 at 3:15:25 PM

Question: Would a Government shutdown affect funding for the Special Counsel, as I have seen that the Justice department would be impacted?

And as a follow-up to that, does Trump think that the Special Counsel will be affected by any shutdown, even if it isn't?

I can't help but think that Trump doesn't care about the wall and just sees it as the most divisive thing he can use to shut the government down and in doing so stop the investigation.

Edited by singularityshot on Dec 17th 2018 at 11:16:29 AM

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#264511: Dec 17th 2018 at 3:23:27 PM

What I get out of this is that not only could we reasonably flip Trump voters to a democratic candidate, but we just might get many of them to switch parties long term.

If (and only if) the voter in question has since become disillusioned with the Republican Party then maybe. I think it's more realistic for them to stay home in 2020.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Dec 17th 2018 at 6:23:39 AM

i'm tired, my friend
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#264512: Dec 17th 2018 at 3:23:35 PM

@Singularity: Aside from killing a mouse with an atomic bomb, I dont give Trump that much credit for plotting and planning.

@Physical Stamina: I could live with that for one election, but long term we need to shift the country as a whole to the Left.

Edited by DeMarquis on Dec 17th 2018 at 6:24:48 AM

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#264513: Dec 17th 2018 at 3:26:39 PM

[up][up]To be honest, that was always the best-case scenario I envisioned for many people who became disillusioned with Donald.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#264514: Dec 17th 2018 at 3:26:47 PM

Kind of hard to do that when the people you want to shift find the idea of government spending abhorrent.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#264515: Dec 17th 2018 at 3:29:15 PM

[up][up][up]For what I see, The Wall is more a ego trip, Trump at times thing like those old kings who want a big monument to said he is the best, it happen with authoritarian ALL the time.

"that’d be like asking Hurricane Harvey to foot the bill for rebuilding Houston"

I see why people get angry but also why so people didnt think trump would do that: is a violention of comon sense that Trump simple didnt care, or....

Regular republican: Stop Donald!, your ego isnt worth a stupid and inefective wall!

Trump: YES IT IS, YES IT IS!

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#264516: Dec 17th 2018 at 3:32:03 PM

Literally the one thing Trump is good for is being bloody-minded about getting buildings built.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#264518: Dec 17th 2018 at 3:57:03 PM

I could live with that for one election, but long term we need to shift the country as a whole to the Left.

And we don't need to court Trump voters specifically to do that.

i'm tired, my friend
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#264519: Dec 17th 2018 at 4:07:52 PM

And we don't need to court Trump voters specifically to do that.

Exactly this, segregation was not defeated by courting segregationists. It was beaten by convincing the ignorant and uninvolved people that segregation was wrong, that, and rallying the oppressed people who experienced its wrongness first hand.

There is zero reason to directly court Trump voters the vast majority of the time, focusing on base turnout and independents will always be a better use of resources.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#264520: Dec 17th 2018 at 4:22:14 PM

It's not even that winning people over or at least making them more open-minded isn't important work, but that usually only works with people who are more in the middle ground or vote for the GOP more out of inertia than anything. If the Trump voter in question seems willing to hear you out in good faith and you don't feel threatened by them, by all means. For most of them though I think social ostracism is really the only option.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#264521: Dec 17th 2018 at 4:25:14 PM

[up]I will said some Trump voter who didnt take him seriously can vote democract eventually for some reason or another but no more than that.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#264522: Dec 17th 2018 at 4:52:12 PM

With the looming shutdown, I just really have to ask: Who's bright idea was it to make it possible for the entire government to lose all budget funding just because the POTUS is too mule-headed, immature and/or malicious about having his way on something that is not even remotely worth the trouble his causing? Is this unique to the USA, or does this also have a chance of happening in other liberal democracies but for some reason is far more common to do so in Washington DC?

Edited by MarqFJA on Dec 17th 2018 at 3:53:19 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#264523: Dec 17th 2018 at 4:55:50 PM

Comes with the president being the ultimate authority,blame the founding fathers I guess

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#264524: Dec 17th 2018 at 4:55:51 PM

The issue, assuming I'm not missing anything, is that any spending bill is just that, a bill, and the process for those includes getting through both Senate and House of Representatives then being signed by the President. If the President vetoes the law, the Senate has the option to override that veto

So the issue is that the bill has to go through multiple steps and Trump, sadly, is one of them.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#264525: Dec 17th 2018 at 5:04:05 PM

In most (all) other liberal democracies a budget can still fail, but if it does a new election is called or a new government formed, that dosnt happen in the US, a government doesn’t get thrown out of power for failing the basic job of funding itself.

Also in other countries you’ll normally have either a chief executive who controls the legislator (which US presidents don’t, especially with the filibuster existing in the senate) or a chief executive who must/will bend to the legislator and either lacks a veto or would never use it.

That’s just the regular budget process by the way, the US has an entire second government shutdown mechanic in the form of the debt ceiling.

It’s a combination of fixed terms, presidential veto, non-legistlative executive, multi-chambered legislative and the filibuster that makes this such a common thing in the US.

Edited by Silasw on Dec 17th 2018 at 1:06:19 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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