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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
And you trust them to fund a public insurance company?
I don't really see any reason to believe a hybrid system would be any more resistant to sabotage. If anything it would be more vulnerable due to the fact that its benefits wouldn't be as obvious.
People can intuitively understand publicly managed healthcare, but having a public option that keeps prices down via competition is much more esoteric and thus exploitable by bad faith actors to subtly sabotage it.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Dec 11th 2018 at 3:45:07 PM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangQuotes from the Democrat-Trump meeting:
PELOSI: This has spiraled down. We came here to meet the needs of the American people — who have needs. ... People are losing their jobs. The market is in a mood —
TRUMP: Well, we had the lowest unemployment that we’ve had in 50 years.
PELOSI: Sixty people of the Republican Party are losing their offices now because of the transition.
TRUMP: [Talking over Pelosi] And we’ve gained in the Senate. Nancy. We’ve gained in the Senate. Excuse me. Did we win the Senate? We won the Senate.
SCHUMER: [Turning to reporters] When the president brags that he won North Dakota and Indiana, he’s in real trouble.
I am not sure you get what I am talking about and I have no idea how to explain it differently either.
My main concern is that I think that taxes and healthcare shouldn't be mixed. What I imagine it basically the NHS EXCEPT that the money for it won't come from taxes, but from a separate payment (or a specifically named tax). Money which can ONLY be used in the health care system.
My other concern is how said money is then used. It's not insurance companies which steal most of the money for health care, it's the drug companies and other providers within the system. So you would need strict regulations anyway. And I think those are easier to maintain, if the people who pay for health care, know exactly how much they pay and what is done with the money.
Not sure if I like the Sixty people of the Republican Party are losing their offices now because of the transition. line. It's certainly entertaining if you are into that kind of spiteful verbiage, but it sounds out of place in a budget discussion.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanI mean, it's saying "the people spoke, they want more Democratic measures."
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.In asking to set up a government-run insurance agency, you basically amount to asking for a new government agency. This will be entirely under the purview of the executive branch.
By taking it out of the normal funding streams (e.g., not part of any budgeting because it's not tax-funded) what you do is give Congress almost no power over its operation.
Therefore, the instant the party in control of the White House changes, the thing can be gutted with no repercussions.
The big problem with a mixed system is that you’re not just fighting the Republicans, you’re fighting the entire healthcare industry.
The US isn’t Germany, companies in the US don’t have a long term world view and a desire to support the nation while making a moderate profit for themselves, they will destroy any healthcare system from the inside if they’re allowed to be part of it.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranMixed systems have a "mixed" history when it comes to how well they are run. It's not hard to think of examples where eventually, things came to a head (Fannie Mae in 2008 comes to mind). The fundemental problem is that government and business organizations pursue two different goals and purposes—the first is to share the burden of providing a public service across the entire taxbase, the other is to make a profit. These two goals can easily come into conflict, so whatever agency is put in charge of gov-funded health care system has to know what it's highest priority is, being either one or the other. In which case it isn't really a hybrid system anymore.
A semi-independent non-profit agency, a la a public utility, might work.
From the linked article: "...Universal health care? Free college? Stronger regulation of Wall Street? Forceful downward redistribution of wealth? A true “Green New Deal?” None of these things are implausible now. And all of them are ideas that Bernie Sanders stands for. So what is the best way for him to contribute to the possibility of bringing them into reality?"
Edited by DeMarquis on Dec 11th 2018 at 4:45:26 AM
I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.![]()
Eh, German Health Care is hard to explain in short. And it's based on very heavy and clear rules laid down by the state which is generally a thing the US treats like the black plague.
German Public Insurance Companies are actually not really for profit, by design? If they make too much cash, the State might actually 'suggest' they lower their extra fee's.
In short (and very simplified), every public insured person in german pays the same fee. This gets pooled and then doled out to the Companies based on how much people they have signed on. Some have aforementioned extra fee's which goes directly to the Company which is then used for things like health training programs etc.
The services provided are also pretty clearly laid out by the Health Ministry and in Germany it is actually not allowed to deny someone to join a public Health Insurance. Which means a Insurance which fucks over it's members will have a very fast flood of leavers to other providers.
If you are well off enough, you can get Private Insurance which obviously has different rules, but still has to abide by a lot of the service rules laid out, but they get to keep all their fee's to themselves.
Edited by 3of4 on Dec 11th 2018 at 10:57:51 AM
"You can reply to this Message!"@Silasw: Nah. Ironically, now the insurance industry is fighting for the ACA, because they don't like having to change to chase regulations, they've adapted to Obamacare as a fact and they're happy to take government subsidies.
If we expand insurance, the medical industry will just find more ways to bite down on that teat. It's part of why Medicare is so bloated right now - because Congress has been captured so that Medicare is legally not permitted to negotiate with providers or set prices, allowing the ridiculous markups of the current medical-industrial complex.
Edited by Ramidel on Dec 11th 2018 at 12:50:02 AM
Again: I am NOT talking about a health care system following the German example. I am talking about the US combining their own version of one while avoiding the downfalls of the various systems. The German system is too risky for the US (insurance companies aren't really the problem in Germany, but pharma companies have a little too much influence), but so is the NHS. So I am looking for some sort of hybrid which would work specifically for the US.
And yes, the German insurance system is overly complicated, because it is one of the oldest (it might even be THE oldest...I have to look it up) in the world. We had our first version of it the 1880s already. But the oldest system isn't necessarily the best. Like I said, it is very complicated, and was grown bit by bit.
Also, yeah, the relationship between business and the state is a little bit different in Germany than it is in the US. That is partly related to a long term approach being seen is favourable over the fast win, partly due to some specific rules - we have union representatives sitting on the boards of the big companies. But between VW and Deutsche Bank, one shouldn't have a too romantic view either. I think it is a little bit more society friendly overall, but part of this is also enforced by the state (and sometimes the state fails to enforce it).
Maybe the Swedish system is something for the US to look into?
Edited by Swanpride on Dec 11th 2018 at 2:09:10 AM
Okay, so another forum has been having a spat over Ocasio-Cortez and alleged anti-Semitism on her part. I bring this up because she's now claiming that part of her ancestry includes Jews that escaped the Spanish Inquisition, which is... not a great argument.
Anyone know the details of these claims? I know she had someone on her campaign that made anti-Semitic remarks, but that's about it for my knowledge of it.
Edit: Nix that. She apparently didn't use that 100% as a defense against the accusations, but instead revealed it at a Hannukah celebration she was invited to speak at
. Sephardic Jews, namely.
Edited by ironballs16 on Dec 11th 2018 at 5:07:19 AM
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
x4
If I remember my assorted economics lectures properly one thing that German-style ordoliberalism/Rhine capitalism/whatever you want to call it is very good at with the whole emphasis on rules is avoiding regulatory capture. You wind up with a lot of big, ancient companies geared for tech and exports (Siemens, BASF etc.) which you then keep leashed. The Japanese system is similar, partially because they looked at the Germans who were rapidly catching up with the UK at the time the Japanese system was... not going to say "designed", there's no central planning board, but piecing itself together. Very good late-developer growth model, although because it relies on people elsewhere buying your stuff it has a few endogenous problems of its own and can only scale to a certain extent because we can't yet sell cars to Mars.
Re: healthcare I believe one of the reasons the USA has the FICA payroll taxes is so people would feel invested in the Social Security system and would be willing to defend it because, you know, "I paid damn well for that healthcare!". Similar for the UK's National Insurance I imagine, although IIRC neither of them are ringfenced in practice so it just gets deleted like all the other taxes and replaced with new money typed into existence when the powers that be write a budget.
Well, big companies are well and good, but Germany's economy is actually mostly based on a number of small and medium seized companies, a lot of them being hidden champions in niche markets. Some with the banks, btw. We have Deutsche Bank as the big visible international entity, but a lot of banking in Germany is done over so called Genossenschaftsbanken.
Anyway if someone wants to watch Trump trying to argue with Pelosi over the border wall:
Schumer did well, btw.
Edited by Swanpride on Dec 11th 2018 at 2:28:16 AM

@Raineh Daze Yes, I know. But how about having a government run insurance company? One which is not paid by taxes, but into which every US citizen pays into separately? And that money can ONLY be used for health care, nothing else? This way, the republicans would have a hard time to defund it.
Hell, if there is a surplus, said surplus can be used for investments into research and development in the health care service.
I simply don't think that trusting the US government to keep funding Healthcare to the degree it would have to will work.
Edited by Swanpride on Dec 11th 2018 at 12:41:15 PM