TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#264001: Dec 10th 2018 at 5:51:37 PM

Trump's preferred choice to replace John Kelly turned down the chief of staff role. Nick Ayers currently serves as Pence's chief of staff, and said that he is instead leaving the administration entirely at the end of the year to spend more time with his family in Georgia.

spend more time with Family

Yeah, of course that's why he's leaving

At least 16 Trump associates interacted with Russian nationals during the campaign and transition period, according to public records and interviews. After taking office, Trump and senior officials repeatedly lied about the campaign's contact with Russians, with Trump at one point claiming: "No. Nobody that I know of. I have nothing to do with Russia. To the best of my knowledge, no person that I deal with does." Hope Hicks, then Trump's spokeswoman, also lied, saying: "It never happened. There was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign." The contacts and communications occurred amidst "sustained efforts by the Russian government to interfere with the U.S. presidential election," according to Mueller's latest filing. The list of associates communicating with Russians includes Paul Manafort, Rick Gates, Michael Flynn, Trump Jr., Jared Kushner, George Papadopoulos, Carter Page, Jeff Sessions, JD Gordon, Roger Stone, Michael Caputo, Erik Prince, Avi Berkowitz, Michael Cohen, Ivanka Trump, and Felix Sater. (CNN / Washington Post)

I am not a crook

Edited by megaeliz on Dec 10th 2018 at 8:58:19 AM

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#264002: Dec 10th 2018 at 6:24:15 PM

@Troperonastick: "What about throwing out the most radical ideas you can, perhaps even more radical than you're comfortable with, and letting yourself be "talked down" to something "merely" left-wing?"

Depends on what the end result is. If it actually rolls back some of the rights that have been taken away in the last 20 years, I could live with that.

@Tobias: "We are trying to argue that doing something is better than doing nothing in front of people who are entirely content with nothing. Ie. "I know you have your reservations about my proposal and, from your perspective, would lose nothing by saying no. BUUUUT let me walk you through why saying yes might not be so terrible after all."

That works as a strategy for educating the public, not so well when dealing with Republican Congressmen.

But it's really not just about what gets through Congress, but what begins to persuade the public. That's how the Conservatives pushed the Overton Window so far to the right in the first place—If you had suggested warrentless wiretaps, or a trillion dollar deficit, or banning immigrants on the basis of religion, or locking up a political opponent, or any of a dozen other things, say, 30 years ago, people would have thought you were from Mars. But they kept doing it and kept doing it until it became the new normal. And what allowed it to become the new normal was that Democrats moved to the center, instead of countering with crazy left wing ideas of their own. Medicare for All might have passed by now, if we had started hammering on it 30 years ago.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#264003: Dec 10th 2018 at 6:36:49 PM

I disagree with the assertion that Republicans have been going Full Trump for thirty years.

Republicans brought us here incrementally. There's a reason they've employed so many dogwhistles over the years; they've pushed for policies that they could use as stepping stones to get to the racist ideology they wanted.

Tough on Crime. War on Drugs. Terrorists. Illegals. They've always been very careful to coach their motions in such a way that it didn't sound so bad. Then they'd enact the policy and let people get used to it.

They didn't normalize it by screaming "CONCENTRATION CAMPS" at people until it abruptly stopped sounding so terrible. They normalized it by carefully walking us towards concentration camps, never saying the words, and insisting that each step along the way was just another improvement existing in a vacuum to make you safer.

Society changes in small steps, not in great leaps.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 10th 2018 at 7:37:27 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#264004: Dec 10th 2018 at 6:42:36 PM

I mean. Trump says the quiet parts loud, yeah, but the Republicans have been pretty explicit about their war on social programs (cough, minorities, women, and poor people) for decades. Reagan was not subtle, he was just really good at PR. Also he basically screwed our entire country in a myriad of ways and the more I learn about him the more I want to spit upon his grave.

Sorry for citing Cracked, of all things, but they’ve got a decent summary of some of his biggest policy decisions, so I’m gonna link that rather than dig for half an hour to find succinct academic articles or major journalism (NY Times, Wash Po, etc) articles on each issue.

Edited by wisewillow on Dec 10th 2018 at 9:45:36 AM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#264005: Dec 10th 2018 at 6:45:49 PM

Interestingly the only people from the GOP that seem to still remember Ronnie existed are the never-trumpers or the old neocons, like Max Boot. The song and dance from these people is usually that yes, Trump IS racist and sexist and there is a problem with modern conservatism that they ignored for years which led to the GOP's current state, but this usually also means trying to salvage Reagan as anything but the first step towards the path that led them to Donald, which is the part where they lose me.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Dec 10th 2018 at 10:48:18 AM

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#264006: Dec 10th 2018 at 7:30:03 PM

Well, even earlier was Nixon, and even earlier than that was Goldwater, but your overall point is correct.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#264007: Dec 10th 2018 at 9:16:38 PM

Re: Single-payer vs ACA: The problem I see with trying to build a new single-payer system is that it'll take up a lot of time and resources... and by the time all the deal-making is done, probably won't be much of an improvement. Might be worse! Reforming an existing system is easier and more reliable

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#264008: Dec 10th 2018 at 9:19:48 PM

@Crimson Zephyr: It wasn't a decision, it was a non-decision.

Kavanaugh could have caved because he knew that if there wasn't a 6-3 decision to punt, there'd be a 5-4 decision to force all the circuits to fund Planned Parenthood. Of course, this is kremlinology on my part, but I'll believe Kavanaugh is an Earl Warren when I see it.

(And if he is, then that's not a bad thing, so long as we don't forget that his name will always be tarnished by his previous sexual assaults.)

Edited by Ramidel on Dec 10th 2018 at 8:21:38 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#264009: Dec 10th 2018 at 9:23:05 PM

Mind you, there's a difference between Trumplicans and Republicans.

Trumplicans have no interest in catering to the (White) Evangelicals' social agenda. He expects (correctly) they will follow them out of pure brand loyalty and racism. Trump doesn't care about abortion and has moved to more popular platforms with his base.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Dec 10th 2018 at 9:23:24 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#264010: Dec 10th 2018 at 9:39:20 PM

It's important to clarify that statement: Trump doesn't care about abortion enough to doggedly pursue any particular stance on it, but by the same token he also has no problem with the Republicans' stance on it... as long as he doesn't perceive such enabling of the GOP's anti-abortion agenda as harming his personal reputation and benefit. Key word being "perceive"; it's been shown time and again that Trump is quite divorced from reality in many ways.

Edited by MarqFJA on Dec 10th 2018 at 8:39:57 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#264011: Dec 10th 2018 at 10:05:59 PM

For the record, Clarence Thomas (one of the three dissenters) thought that Roberts and Kavanaugh are too scared from yet another controversy.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#264012: Dec 10th 2018 at 10:18:51 PM

Accused Russian spy Maria Butina may have reached a plea deal with the feds.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/10/politics/maria-butina-plea/index.html

For those who don't remember; she was the one accused of trying to compromise the GOP and the NRA on behalf of the Kremlin.

Trying?
I wonder if he wrongly believes he can go down in history as something other than the accused rapist SCJ.
Well since the Dems have vowed to re-open the investigation he could possibly go down in history as the proven rapist SCJ... And on this point open anti-abortionism isn't doing him any favors.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#264013: Dec 10th 2018 at 10:42:54 PM

A thing I feel is notable: Trump has actually been dragging the GOP left on health care. He changed the party line from 'repeal ACA' to 'repeal and replace'; he essentially doesn't have any ideological reasons to argue against ACA, he just wanted to steal the credit. Hence why his lies when the they were trying to pass AHCA were about trying to make it seem more similar to ACA than it actually was- the carefully honed instincts of a lifelong conman told him stuff like taking away coverage for pre-existing conditions would never be popular.

And since trying to steal the credit worked out so badly for him, he's basically just been trying to ignore the issue ever since- moving the party line once again to 'just leave everything the way it is', forcing floundering GOP congresscritters into rhetorical territory they were directly arguing against not too long ago. While meanwhile the Democrats, sensing weakness, take the opportunity to talk about ways to improve and expand on ACA.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#264014: Dec 10th 2018 at 10:51:29 PM

Trump's number 1# priority is getting people to like him. His 2# priority is making more money for himself because he was bankrupt until the Kremlin paid off his debts. 3# is white supremacy.

Republicans have ideological reasons to want to repeal ACA or monetary (the people who pay their kickbacks are against it). Trump does not get any of those kickbacks and has no ideology but himself (and white supremacy which is a bit of a big "and"). So, yes, he was among the Republicans who was against repealing ACA that prevented it from happening.

The other Republicans being those aware their base would possibly lynch or kill them and I mean that literally.

But yes, Trump repeatedly lied and said, "Even better ACA!"

The Republicans going, "Wait, what?"

"EVERYONE COVERED."

"Huh!?"

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Dec 10th 2018 at 10:53:18 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#264015: Dec 10th 2018 at 11:40:07 PM

[up] You forgot one.

4# Avoid being publicly shamed or diminished in others eyes at all costs.

Gaining admiration from others and avoiding loosing that admiration, drives nearly everything he does. He keeps up the self delusion, because he has too. If he were to admit to the deeply shameful thing that he did, even to himself, that would mean he’s no longer worthy of admiration, and as his little fantasy world is coming apart at the seams, he’s failing.

Edited by megaeliz on Dec 11th 2018 at 3:01:14 PM

Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#264016: Dec 11th 2018 at 12:43:58 AM

[up]I took it as being part of #1.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#264017: Dec 11th 2018 at 3:54:55 AM

On healthcare requiring a supermajority, I have to ask, does it?

If the Dems take the senate in 2020 can’t they pass healthcare under the same rule that let the Republicans pass tax cuts with only a majority?

Because if so I’d just consider this planning time, no actual legistlation is going to get passed with the Republicans controlling the senate and the White House, so this time might as well be used to get legistlation ready for 2020 in the hope that the Dems can get a solid majority.

Though I say if the Dems get enough legistlation ready for 2020 then get a majority it’s worth considering killing the filibuster and just ramming though healthcare, electoral reform, tax reform, gun reform and other issues in two years.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#264018: Dec 11th 2018 at 4:05:05 AM

One has to remember: Once a benefit is introduced, it is really, really difficult for the Republicans to remove it completely.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#264019: Dec 11th 2018 at 4:20:05 AM

[up][up]We'd need a majority of Democrats to consent to kill the filibuster. That's not happening when the Democrats are an extremely huge tent and include a lot of people who would really rather be in a sane conservative party, and are unlikely to vote for comprehensive reform packages - so each item will have to be painstakingly negotiated within the party, with Republicans running interference every step of the way.

Except for the last part, of course, this is how this sort of thing should be worked out.

Edited by Ramidel on Dec 11th 2018 at 3:50:57 AM

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#264020: Dec 11th 2018 at 6:06:02 AM

[up] No one's talking about killing the filibuster, they're talking about using budget reconciliation to pass laws with a simple majority like the Republicans did with the tax reform bill last year.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#264021: Dec 11th 2018 at 6:58:54 AM

US troops are withdrawing from the border, having “completed their mission” there. They’re going to be taking down all the obstacles they set up and heading home. [1]

Can anyone say mission accomplished?

They should have sent a poet.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#264022: Dec 11th 2018 at 6:59:24 AM

There are limits to what kind of law can be passed under budget reconciliation rules, though. One, it can be done only once per year, two, some things are subject to automatic time limits, three, certain things are prohibited from being pased under reconciliation rules.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Dec 11th 2018 at 3:59:50 PM

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#264023: Dec 11th 2018 at 7:18:52 AM

What Trump may think or believe is and always has been more or less irrelevent. His purpose is to be a sideshow freak, and at that he has been brilliant. As long as the Conservative donor class get their tax breaks and deregulation, and as long as the base get their nativism, he can say or do whatever he wants and nobody on the Republican side cares. To take one example, the Wall, which is the one thing he really wants, he isnt going to get. There is no "Trumpism" to fight, just political theater. The real damage is going on in the background.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#264024: Dec 11th 2018 at 7:20:28 AM

I was talking about ending the filibuster, if reconciliation wouldn’t allow the laws Dems want to pass to pass with only a majority, then, instead of amending the senate rules around the filibuster, the Dems could simply amend the rules around reconciliation so as to allow reconciliation to be used to for the laws Dems want to pass.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TechPriest90 Servant of the Omnissiah from Collegia Titanica, Mars, Sol System Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Servant of the Omnissiah
#264025: Dec 11th 2018 at 7:21:35 AM

This article here does a fairly good job of summarizing the voter demographics in the 2018 Midterms.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/11/politics/the-foundation-of-trumps-coalition-is-cracking/index.html

However, can someone give me a brief rundown on who these "Evangelicals" are? Some kind of religious fanatics? I see a lot of talking heads blathering about them without making it clear what they mean.

I hold the secrets of the machine.

Total posts: 417,856
Top