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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#263901: Dec 9th 2018 at 9:01:17 AM

[up][up]It's mainly the right that doesn't like Vox's political pieces. I'll give you three guesses why.
Because they aren't the Right's?

[down] Hence my acknowledgement that I'm probably wrong about that assumption. It was just the only other thing to come to mind besides HuffPost because I tend to avoid obviously biased sources in the first place and have a Small Reference Pool.

Edited by sgamer82 on Dec 9th 2018 at 10:13:57 AM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#263902: Dec 9th 2018 at 9:06:35 AM

Vox is not anywhere near Breitbart level bad.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#263903: Dec 9th 2018 at 9:13:19 AM

A lot of people have this belief that poor whites voted for Trump. As many here have pointed out, that wasn't the case.

The most votes for Trump came from the Upper-Middle Class and wealthy suburbanites. AKA We don't want those people (Read: poor people, skin-colour be damned) getting better because we're Feeling Oppressed by Their Existence.

Uh no, don't whitewash them.

Trump voters were not motivated by classism, they were motivated by racism. To act as if his blatantly racist campaign was focused on classism is just egregious. It was all about race and white fears of a more racially diverse nation.

Because they aren't the Right's?

Because they report reality accurately, which means yes, they aren't the Right's.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Dec 9th 2018 at 12:13:59 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
TechPriest90 Servant of the Omnissiah from Collegia Titanica, Mars, Sol System Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Servant of the Omnissiah
#263904: Dec 9th 2018 at 9:19:40 AM

[up] Not whitewashing them. Anyone who voted for Trump was doing it for either a racist reason or stupidity. I'm merely stating that it wasn't always the poor or lower-class people who voted for him, like some idiots keep railing on about.

Uneducated, sure. Racist, sure. No doubt about that.

Edited by TechPriest90 on Dec 9th 2018 at 12:21:35 PM

I hold the secrets of the machine.
Blueeyedrat Since: Oct, 2010
#263905: Dec 9th 2018 at 9:22:01 AM

[up] If I were to wager a guess, the whitewashing comment was in reference to this part:

We don't want those people (Read: poor people, skin-colour be damned) getting better because we're Feeling Oppressed by Their Existence.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#263906: Dec 9th 2018 at 9:24:15 AM

Not whitewashing them. Anyone who voted for Trump was doing it for either a racist reason or stupidity. I'm merely stating that it wasn't always the poor or lower-class people who voted for him, like some idiots keep railing on about.

Uneducated, sure. Racist, sure. But it was never about poor or rich.

I wasn't disagreeing with your claim that Trump voters weren't poor, that's empirically true and I've said similar things before.

My problem was with your statement that Trump voters disliked poor people their skin color be damned, which is false, it was far more about skin color than class.

Hence my acknowledgement that I'm probably wrong about that assumption. It was just the only other thing to come to mind besides Huff Post because I tend to avoid obviously biased sources in the first place and have a Small Reference Pool.

This confusion of bias and unreliability is a major reason we're in this situation, to begin with, yes Vox is biased. But that's because they actually report reality and thus are going to lean towards the reality-based community (i.e the American Left).

If a source is unbiased then they're either biased and hiding it or just vacuous.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Dec 9th 2018 at 12:27:15 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#263907: Dec 9th 2018 at 9:26:45 AM

There is no unbiased media.

i'm tired, my friend
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#263908: Dec 9th 2018 at 9:28:01 AM

[up][up]At the same time there's sources like Reuters and AP which, for better or worse, seem to skew more neutral in their reporting from what I can tell.

Edited by sgamer82 on Dec 9th 2018 at 10:28:19 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#263909: Dec 9th 2018 at 9:28:16 AM

There is no unbiased media.

Exactly, it's like when someone says a creative is 'apolitical'. It's never true and because it tries to appear impartial it's likely to be critically examined for whatever ideals are baked into it.

At the same time there's sources like Reuters and AP which, for better or worse, seem to be more neutral in their reporting from what I can tell.

You're missing the point, neutrality is not objectively good.

When there is something that is wrong then pretending that it may or may not be wrong is often just cowardly pandering to audience bias, and even when it's not like that neutrality has no intrinsic connection to quality and reliability.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Dec 9th 2018 at 12:29:55 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#263910: Dec 9th 2018 at 9:29:04 AM

Yeah, recently I said I heard the Huffintonpost was a biased source, but it would probably be better to say they're unreliable. Or at least, that's how things like this should be framed.

Because it's impossible for discussions like this to be totally free of bias one way or the other.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#263911: Dec 9th 2018 at 9:31:59 AM

Yeah, recently I said I heard the Huffintonpost was a biased source, but it would probably be better to say they're unreliable. Or at least, that's how things like this should be framed.

Because it's impossible for discussions like this to be totally free of bias one way or the other.

Yeah, I agree with this.

They're unreliable in a way that Vox is not, though still not at comparable levels to Breitbart (to give an extreme example).

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#263912: Dec 9th 2018 at 9:32:51 AM

An unbiased news source would likely be all over the place politically. Reality has inconsistent political bias, and can be construed toward any political agenda merely by cherry-picking the data you like. And you have to cherry-pick data, because you can't say or even understand everything.

Vox is definitely strongly biased. I mean, hell, they had a whole article on why the American revolution was a bad thing made primarily out of very dubious speculation.

Leviticus 19:34
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#263913: Dec 9th 2018 at 9:36:10 AM

It's impossible to have a truly unbiased news source. The only question is "bias aside, is the reporting from this outlet reliable and based on facts?".

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#263914: Dec 9th 2018 at 9:36:32 AM

An unbiased news source would likely be all over the place politically. Reality has inconsistent political bias, and can be construed toward any political agenda merely by cherry-picking the data you like. And you have to cherry-pick data, because you can't say or even understand everything.

This may be true in the abstract but it's not really accurate for American politics in general, the Republican Party has gone full delusion and embraced dishonesty and thus a truly unbiased source (if such a thing were ever possible) would likely strongly lean towards the American Left because we're the 50% of the Political Spectrum that actually cares about empiricism and objectivity.

Vox is definitely strongly biased. I mean, hell, they had a whole article on why the American revolution was a bad thing made primarily out of very dubious speculation.

I don't think anyone's disputing this, the argument being made is that this can be true while also irrelevant or less-than-relevant to their accuracy.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Dec 9th 2018 at 12:36:53 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
TechPriest90 Servant of the Omnissiah from Collegia Titanica, Mars, Sol System Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Servant of the Omnissiah
#263915: Dec 9th 2018 at 10:32:07 AM

Some guy made a chart showing the media bias on the political spectrum.

https://www.adfontesmedia.com/

Worth having a look at, if you ask me.

I hold the secrets of the machine.
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#263916: Dec 9th 2018 at 10:38:47 AM

Fox News and maybe Daily Kos should be lower IMO, placing them on the border of the red rectangle instead of inside it understates their damage to the public discourse.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Dec 9th 2018 at 10:40:31 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#263917: Dec 9th 2018 at 10:41:53 AM

One might argue that left wing journalism is TOO unbiased because it's reaction to criminal behavior by the right isn't routinely horrified outrage.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#263918: Dec 9th 2018 at 10:49:53 AM

According to that chart, the most right wing news source that this thread uses regularly is the Hill. Most left is Huff Po. Most everything else we see linked here is in that green square in the top center.

With the exception of the Daily Kos, I don't recognize the rest of those news sources in the lower left quadrant beneath Huff Po.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#263919: Dec 9th 2018 at 11:03:02 AM

the Daily Heil should be farther right.

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AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#263920: Dec 9th 2018 at 11:10:08 AM

[up][up] TYT is the Young Turks, a group not seen fondly on this thread. The Palmer Report is a blog and twitter account which I have a grudge against for reasons which will not be discussed. I wouldn't put Palmer at "Most Extreme Left", he tends towards the Center of the Left from what I can tell.

Occupy Democrats I see memes come out off occasionally, but other than that I'm not familiar.

Anyone else know any of these sites?

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#263921: Dec 9th 2018 at 11:27:41 AM

Washington Post should be all green, while the Wall Street Journal should be firmly in the red.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#263922: Dec 9th 2018 at 11:29:02 AM

Slate is fine. I’d say it’s like the left wing WSJ- there’s a definite bias, some solid investigative reporting, some good columnists, some bad columnists, and some Very Bad Hot Takes.

For what it’s worth, I’d argue that the New York Times is predominantly center right. Their framing is typically heavily weighted in favor of the status quo and the wealth; case in point, look at all their loving Trump voter and Neo-Nazi profiles. Yeah, they have left-wing columnists, but they also have Bret Stephens and Bari Weiss and Eric Erickson.

Edit: I looked at that chart; a ton of the center and center right sources should be shifted one column to the right, especially WSJ and The Hill.

Edited by wisewillow on Dec 9th 2018 at 2:31:19 PM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#263923: Dec 9th 2018 at 11:30:37 AM

I am extremely skeptical of that chart, it's far too close to a political compass for my tastes and those are just terrible.

I'm not going to go as far as to say it's definitely wrong but I don't think anyone should use it seriously when deciding what news media they want to consume.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#263924: Dec 9th 2018 at 11:31:31 AM

Maybe the best way to think about it is, while I'm sure there are fanatical left wing sources, as that's unavoidable, they are not nearly as influential as they are on the right.

Edited by megaeliz on Dec 9th 2018 at 2:32:34 PM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#263925: Dec 9th 2018 at 11:32:55 AM

I’d also argue that yelling about prison abolition and legalizing sex work is far, FAR superior to, y’know, violent white supremacy.


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