Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
It’s largly because people conflate being undereducated with being poor. People with a low level of education voted hugely for Trump, people then assume that that means the poor voted for Trump.
Middle-class people can have limited education and people with a strong education (especially recent graduates) can be poor.
It’s one thing that annoys me about 538, they keep dividing class by education level rather than ecenomic wealth.
The entire thing has a ring of bootstraps to it, that ‘obviously’ poor people are poor because they’re stupid, only the stupid become poor.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranCertainly there's more than one way to interpret data as a rule, but the data here seems to fit the conclusion that allocation of campaign resources is a fairly minor influence on election results in general, in which case blaming Hillary for losing the election by campaigning poorly makes little sense. If you have other data, or other interpretations of this data, that supports the conclusion that Hillary lost due to poor campaigning, you're free to present them — but so far you have not. You've just said "there are multiple ways to interpret data" and "correlation is not causation" without presenting any alternative.
You've also entirely sidestepped the first point I made, that even if she'd won the rust belt states she's faulted for ignoring, that by itself would not have won her the electoral college — she would have needed to win at least one more major battleground state (where she campaigned heavily) to actually win the election.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.Apparently republicans are trying to get Democrats declared unconstitutional, a few years ago I would have immediately laughed this off but now they might actually have a chance.
I think they're referring to this.
Basically it's an article from the Huffington post about how Republicans are trying to limit the power of Democrats in the wake of liberal victories, and how this amounts to said Republicans attempting to make Democrats 'unconstitutional.'
Edited by kkhohoho on Dec 8th 2018 at 9:33:14 AM
That said, the actions of the Republicans in North Carolina, Wisconsin, and Michigan are genuinely happening, and genuinely worrisome. Especially if the courts, the only real recourse left, side with the Republicans. From what I've read the new Democratic judge on North Carolina's Supreme Court may actually be able to fix things there (specifically by doing the same thing Pennsylvania's Supreme Court did, and ruling that gerrymandering must end under the state constitution, not federal). But things in Michigan and Wisconsin look pretty bad.
The Republican complete lack of scruples or loyalty to the law grows increasingly more obvious as well as desperate. It's notable they will not budge an inch on their doctrine that increasingly doesn't win them elections fairly — so they just more overtly cheat.
Which is an attitude incompatible with democracy.
We've reached a point where these people need to go to jail.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

A lot of people have this belief that poor whites voted for Trump. As many here have pointed out, that wasn't the case.
The most votes for Trump came from the Upper-Middle Class and wealthy suburbanites. AKA We don't want those people (Read: poor people, skin-colour be damned) getting better because we're Feeling Oppressed by Their Existence.
Which isn't so surprising once you figure in the fact that it was these awful people who caused the occurrence of those Sundown Towns everywhere in the United States.
Poor people almost consistently voted Blue rather than Red. Irrespective of skin colour.
Guess that old bromide about people being more divided by class than race or nationality has more than a grain of truth to it.
I hold the secrets of the machine.