Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
The problem is that the correlation you present isn't necessarily an argument. "These people probably wouldn't vote for Clinton because they are college uneducated whites" is an assertion by itself. It also falls because the lead Trump had in places like Michigan and other states that went for him was incredibly mild in many places.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.Poor whites voted for Hillary.
Middle class and Upper class whites were who elected Trump.
(I mentioned it was also a lost cause that Hillary's plans benefited the middle class primarily when they were the people who were less likely to vote for her)
It's kind of disturbing that not only did the Republicans believe the rural poor voted for Trump but so did the middle and upper class Democrats. Basically, there was a causal assumption the poor and uneducated voted Trump like the hicks they were.
Which proves to be stupid and a form of intellectualism and class snobbery that benefited Trump.
It's one of those pervasive but untrue myths that the poor are the racists and not the "educated" and "successful" which pretty much ignores the Republicans and Trump as the biggest racists in America.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Dec 8th 2018 at 12:53:40 PM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/john-kelly-resign-trump-chief-staff-white-house-leave-when-replacement-a8674161.html
John Kelly: Trump chief of staff to leave White House by end of year, president says.
- Sigh*, why am i not surprised.
I don't really see any reason to be unhappy about that, Kelly is a virulent racist whose beliefs are compatible with Trump and thus the media pushed idea that he was an adult in the room and thus reasonable is completely unfounded.
Hopefully, his dismissal will make the Trump White House more dysfunctional and thus ineffective. That would certainly be far better then anything he accomplished in office.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangHonestly, Trump's administration has achieved very little.
Outside of the trade war and implementing inhumane policies against immigrants, he really hasn't achieved anything worthwhile.
And a good reason for that is exactly how his hands are tied up by all controversies, scandals and the in and out staff that constantly are dealing with him or have conflicting goals.
This is leaving the Executive branch at Federal level without a defacto functional government. On the bright side, this also means the excesses done by Trump and Co. are more limited in scope had them had a resemblance of competence.
Inter arma enim silent legesHe’s been tweeting like a loon all day today.
The idea of a European Military didn’t work out too well in W.W. I or 2. But the U.S. was there for you, and always will be. All we ask is that you pay your fair share of NATO. Germany is paying 1% while the U.S. pays 4.3% of a much larger GDP - to protect Europe. Fairness!
Very sad day & night in Paris. Maybe it’s time to end the ridiculous and extremely expensive Paris Agreement and return money back to the people in the form of lower taxes? The U.S. was way ahead of the curve on that and the only major country where emissions went down last year!
Watched Da Nang Dick Blumenthal on television spewing facts almost as accurate as his bravery in Vietnam (which he never saw). As the bullets whizzed by Da Nang Dicks head, as he was saving soldiers........left and right, he then woke up from his dream screaming that HE LIED. Next time I go to Vietnam I will ask “the Dick” to travel with me!
He knows that he’s in for the biggest shaming of his life, and is panicking.
“This is collusion illusion, there is no smoking gun here. At this late date, after all that we have gone through, after millions have been spent, we have no Russian Collusion. There is nothing impeachable here.” @Geraldo Rivera Time for the Witch Hunt to END!
You know that the only thing keeping you from getting indicted is your presidential status at this point, right?
Edited by megaeliz on Dec 8th 2018 at 5:27:23 AM
![]()
![]()
I believe the first sentence of that post terminated prematurely. Also, you need to fix some of the quote markup.
@Fourthspartan: From what I remember about reading the Woodward book, Fear, it was that John Kelly was one of the people who most actively drilled Trump to be even tougher with his stances on immigration, which didn't correlate at all with what the media portrays.
Life is unfair...It speaks to this time that when I saw that last tweet earlier today I had to spent a hot ten seconds making sure he had not tried to cite Geralt of Rivia as character source, because the name looked similar
"You can reply to this Message!"Today, he’s throwing anything he can think of at the wall looking for a plausible denial.
Narcs focus group their BS, pick whatever people seem to be buying and then run with it.
The “13 Angry Democrats” and “Conflicted Mueller” and personal attacks don’t work when your own DOJ all but indicted you though.
Trump is out of ideas.
Look for him to devolve into ranting belligerence at the unfairness of it all.
Tantrum time.
Edited by megaeliz on Dec 8th 2018 at 5:37:28 AM
Exactly.
The Media is in love with Military men and thus assume that they must be the adults in the room, unfortunately, being the adult in the room is perfectly compatible with holding horrible beliefs.
Kelly clashed with Trump because he viewed Trump as incompetent and stupid, not because he had any problem with racism. He just wanted competent and disciplined bigotry.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangThe idea of a European Military didn’t work out too well in W.W. I or 2. But the U.S. was there for you, and always will be. All we ask is that you pay your fair share of NATO. Germany is paying 1% while the U.S. pays 4.3% of a much larger GDP - to protect Europe. Fairness!
Very sad day & night in Paris. Maybe it’s time to end the ridiculous and extremely expensive Paris Agreement and return money back to the people in the form of lower taxes? The U.S. was way ahead of the curve on that and the only major country where emissions went down last year!
Watched Da Nang Dick Blumenthal on television spewing facts almost as accurate as his bravery in Vietnam (which he never saw). As the bullets whizzed by Da Nang Dicks head, as he was saving soldiers........left and right, he then woke up from his dream screaming that HE LIED. Next time I go to Vietnam I will ask “the Dick” to travel with me!
There is so much wrong in these, even more than the usual Trump tier stupid.
The Paris Agreement one, is...
Yes, a lot of people are "Trump is the worst president ever" but his incompetence and laziness has done a lot less damage than some could have. The damage he has done is real but if we can make him a lame duck for the rest of his presidency, we'll have averted the apocalypse.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Dec 8th 2018 at 3:42:45 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.@Hillary: Clinton got more votes than any white man ever has. The only person to ever get more votes than her was Obama, and "Obama was a stronger candidate than Hillary" isn't a controversial statement, given that he defeated her before. Clinton lost for a smorgasbord of reasons, but her being a weak candidate is not one of them.

Having worked in academia, I always point out that data is wonderful but what it means is the real trick. In this case, the correlations cited mean nothing to the idea that Hillary could not have won over those states.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.