Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
![]()
If you want, I can go back and start bringing up examples of exactly that sort of thing.
![]()
No one's said that, but it has been implied in the past before. I have an example open right next to me right now.
That feels a bit uncalled for, but okay.
Edited by AzurePaladin on Dec 5th 2018 at 5:15:48 AM
The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -FighteerYeah, nobody was implying that in this case. Just because it happened before doesn’t mean it’s happening now, those examples aren’t particularly pertinent.
I’ll also point out we’ve seen some actual Trump apologia in this thread, albeit unintentional apologia.
Edited by archonspeaks on Dec 5th 2018 at 2:15:38 AM
They should have sent a poet.I think people are mostly just tired. There was that quip about immigration recently where there was no argument against how bad it was, but for all of 2016 people had to put up with bad faith discussions, false equivalences, intellectual dishonesty, and gassing up people like Sanders who are just as flawed as Hillary while not applying the same scrutiny. The well's been poisoned, so people get a bit touchy around the subject.
I don't see why we are still discussing Hillary. She lost. She won't run again. What she would have done or not is kind of a mood point (though, for the record, she was at least honest about the rust countries and had programs for retraining in her program instead of promising to revive a dead industry).
Honestly, shouldn't we leave it to Trump to obsess over her?
![]()
Nah, sorry for the confusion.
Yeah, well let's just say we'll agree to disagree as Hillary's policy would have done very little to deal with the systematic problems afflicting America's poor. Again, though, it's a bandaid versus burning the balls.
I keep hoping for a far more Left candidate but sadly Bernie proved to be a gross disappointment.
The question is basically, "What do we want from the next candidate? Someone like Hillary or someone further left or even (on some issues) further right?"
What's our Christmas 2020 Wish List?
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Dec 5th 2018 at 2:57:44 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.This is a claim with no evidence supporting it. By any measure Clinton’s economic policy would have been just as helpful as Obama’s, which did a great deal for the poor.
They should have sent a poet.I've explained like three or four times how it was insufficient and bluntly there's a reason that response to her was tepid in the places where relief was most needed (Rust Belt, Appallachia). But I've mentioned how there's a lot of confusion why those areas have very mixed reception to candidates (and are switch states in the RB).
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.So, what is this thread's opinion on Bush Sr? He seems like he did a lot of good - but goddamn, I can't overlook his opposition to Martin Luther King.
I also read an interesting BBC News article calling him a transition point, whose presidency saw the end of bipartisanship. I know it's been said on this thread one of the issues was Democrats being more welcoming to Minorities, but this article suggested internet echo chambers - and Fox News which didn't exist quite yet - were big contributors. Not to say the Democrats shifting more to the Left isn't an important factor, but do you guys agree with this sentiment from the BBC?
![]()
![]()
![]()
You can’t just insist that something is true and expect that to be good enough.
Clinton’s policy for the poor was the same as Obama’s, and you yourself have stated you felt Obama’s economic policies helped the poor. Recovery for the lower and middle classes was one of the main planks of her campaign, even.
Put bluntly, I think people disagreeed with her policies for reasons other than the actual policies.
Edited by archonspeaks on Dec 5th 2018 at 3:14:41 AM
They should have sent a poet.Read her policy.
https://www.thebalance.com/hillary-clinton-2016-economic-plan-3305767
And Obama, I'm specifically referring to Obama Care.
It's grossly insufficient for changing the situation for the poor in America. I'm also done talking.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Dec 5th 2018 at 3:21:46 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.![]()
Read her actual policy, not an op-ed.
And I’ll point out that expanding on the healthcare platform Obama created is in there as well.
I’ll say again that I think a lot of the dissent came from other angles than the actual policy. She was a deeply flawed candidate, but policy wasn’t the issue. I also don’t think “it doesn’t fix everything” is a realistic line of criticism considering the political climate in the country.
Edited by archonspeaks on Dec 5th 2018 at 3:29:13 AM
They should have sent a poet.Well, I can hardly tell the US what kind of Democrat it should have, but if I could elect one, I would pick someone between Sanders and Obama...basically someone who is a little bit more forceful (Obama's biggest flaw that he was always looking for a consent the Republicans weren't ready to give anyway), but also not on the "my way or the high way" trip.
Ideally the candidate would be not ancient, not white and not male, but I would go for one of those. You know, just to mix it up….

There’s value in looking for things to be done better, but it’s a little silly to say you disagree with the entire policy just because it isn’t good enough, and then compare it to an identical policy.
They should have sent a poet.