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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#263626: Dec 5th 2018 at 11:22:05 AM

Yeah, by that logic, the only time voting matters is if you're in one of one-in-a-billion cases where the candidates end up 1 vote apart.

And, like, if you actually look at vote totals, it's rare for either party to get below 40% in any statewide race. No states are Red or Blue enough for the advantage to survive everyone who thinks 'I won't vote, because my favoured party can never win anyway' choosing to vote anyway.

Edited by Gilphon on Dec 5th 2018 at 2:28:06 PM

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#263627: Dec 5th 2018 at 11:23:52 AM

No single raindrop believes it is to blame for the flood.

TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#263628: Dec 5th 2018 at 11:29:47 AM

"Ideological hangups" came with a silent "severe", I probably should have voiced it.

[up][up][up] That explains quite bit, I feel, you live in a blue state anyway, so you have a less cynical mindset about Democratic chances in your area. I'd be the same way.

[up][up] Then what is the best way to convey that message, to inspire people? Actually asking, not just being a smartass.

Edited by TroperOnAStickV2 on Dec 5th 2018 at 2:37:05 PM

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#263629: Dec 5th 2018 at 11:36:14 AM

I think everyone is wrong here. On one hand, your vote is your primary way to influence government and not using it can screw over a lot of people. If you aren't voting, you do lose out on that chance to get a candidate that will not screw over other people. And if you then complain, well, you had a shot to at least try and you didn't.

On the other hand, if your views significantly diverge from the major candidates on issues you feel are important due to the way American elections are run, telling them "We're not going to actually do anything you want us to do, but give us your vote anyway" is going to feel understandably like you're being taken advantage of.

And that's why primaries are important.

Edited by AzurePaladin on Dec 5th 2018 at 2:37:59 PM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Wazzupguys Since: Jun, 2017
#263630: Dec 5th 2018 at 11:38:36 AM

its definitely a case of stupidity. i mean, after Kanye said that slavery was a choice. support of Trump among Afro-Americans went up by 10%.

Kakuzan Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to. from Knock knock, open up the door, it's real. Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to.
#263631: Dec 5th 2018 at 11:38:54 AM

[up][up][up] Yeah, no. I live in Florida, a state that regularly decides to be screwy. I still decided to vote, and there are many others I know in red states and/or districts that voted as well. Such defeatism and fatalism is not valorous in any way, shape, nor form.

Edited by Kakuzan on Dec 5th 2018 at 2:39:13 PM

Don't catch you slippin' now.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#263632: Dec 5th 2018 at 11:40:03 AM

Also, if you look at the vote totals from Wisconsin and its gerrymandering, there were some districts that had near-100% votes for one party or another.

Voting in (local) elections there is a bit pointless.

TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#263633: Dec 5th 2018 at 11:40:24 AM

I'm mildly surprised I'm on the cynical side here.

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#263634: Dec 5th 2018 at 11:41:09 AM

its definitely a case of stupidity. i mean, after Kanye said that slavery was a choice. support of Trump among Afro-Americans went up by 10%.

I would like a source for this, because this doesn't sound like a thing that's actually true.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#263635: Dec 5th 2018 at 11:42:00 AM

A 10% increase on a very small percentage is statistical noise.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#263636: Dec 5th 2018 at 11:52:58 AM

Then what is the best way to convey that message, to inspire people? Actually asking, not just being a smarts.

Hell if I know; I'm not a politician. I mean, I guess there's always the option of informing people that the whole Red State / Blue State thing is largely a self-fufilling prophecy, which is what I'm doing now. That seems to be working okay from my perspective. Or you could use Beto O'Rouke as an example; he probably would've flipped Texas if the GOP hadn't spent the big bucks to defend it.

But in any case, I largely don't think the onus is on the candidate to correct whatever statistical misunderstanding the voters might have about the process. I mean, they obviously need to whatever they think they have to get people to vote for them, but it's not an area where it makes sense to blame them for not doing it, if you follow me.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#263637: Dec 5th 2018 at 12:09:44 PM

Frankly, a good slogan and/or an inspirational goal is the winner. It's simply marketing. Remember, Obama won with his own three word slogan: Yes, we can. It was pretty much perfect. Short, with a good rhythm and uplifting without the need to be specific about what exactly "we can".

TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#263638: Dec 5th 2018 at 12:15:50 PM

Isn't the general wisdom that the more "powerful" person has more of the fault for whatever happens? Ergo, the onus SHOULD fall on the candidate.

Edited by TroperOnAStickV2 on Dec 5th 2018 at 3:17:15 PM

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#263639: Dec 5th 2018 at 12:19:01 PM

Obama's early economic policy proposals were far more drastic in scope, including a switch to nuclear power cross the board. This was when there was a lot of hope on his part (wrongly) for Republican cooperation for repairing the economy versus pointless blocking for blocking's sake.

But bluntly, Hillary's policy at the end like Obama's was not going to help rural or Rust Belt America the level its needs which was a comprehensive massive change.

And let's just say we disagree about foreign policy.

It's hard to get excited about a candidate when there's actual hunger in your state that won't be affected by her plans.

https://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/kentucky

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Dec 5th 2018 at 12:20:46 PM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#263640: Dec 5th 2018 at 12:26:22 PM

[up] Clinton supported nuclear energy, and given how uneven Obama’s record on the subject was he’s hardly a good person to compare with.

Clinton’s policies would have helped middle America. Full stop. The whole “if it doesn’t solve everything I don’t want it” stance is ignorant of the way progress actually happens, as Tobias pointed out above.

Edited by archonspeaks on Dec 5th 2018 at 12:28:30 PM

They should have sent a poet.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#263641: Dec 5th 2018 at 12:26:55 PM

Also, if you look at the vote totals from Wisconsin and its gerrymandering, there were some districts that had near-100% votes for one party or another.

I think this is down to there being a lot of uncontested elections in the US, likely due to a high barrier to entry when it comes to running for office.

As for the importance of voting, it always matters, because you vote has an impact even if your party can’t win, hell even if you spoil your ballot it has an impact.

I’ve given details about how in the past and can do so again if people need reminding.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#263642: Dec 5th 2018 at 12:28:02 PM

But bluntly, Hillary's policy at the end like Obama's was not going to help rural or Rust Belt America the level its needs which was a comprehensive massive change.
The first thing that comes to mind when I see this is "would it have helped more than the alternative?"

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#263643: Dec 5th 2018 at 12:32:38 PM

Which alternative? Trump? No, but Charles has made it clear that he still favoured Hillary over Trump and voted such.

The hypothetical rural socialist candidate that Charles wants to exist, probably not.

Guys, not every criticism of Hillary is secret apologia for Trump.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#263644: Dec 5th 2018 at 12:36:19 PM

[up][up] I think Charles followed that, considering he still voted for Clinton.

Guys, not every criticism of Hillary is secret apologia for Trump.

[awesome][awesome][awesome]

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#263645: Dec 5th 2018 at 12:46:28 PM

[awesome][awesome][awesome] second. Exactly this.

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#263646: Dec 5th 2018 at 12:47:33 PM

[up][up][up] I don’t think it’s an issue of secret Trump apologia but rather a little bit of an unrealistic criticism of Clinton. There’s no such thing as a perfect candidate, after all.

Edited by archonspeaks on Dec 5th 2018 at 12:47:45 PM

They should have sent a poet.
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#263647: Dec 5th 2018 at 12:49:24 PM

Perhaps not, but that does not mean we should ignore the issues.

You can support someone's candidacy without being blind to all the ways they could be better. Hell, I'd argue its necessary to criticize the people we're supporting. You can't expect someone to improve or to see the changes you want to see if you never try, right?

Edited by AzurePaladin on Dec 5th 2018 at 3:50:26 PM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#263648: Dec 5th 2018 at 12:49:58 PM

I don’t think it’s an issue of secret Trump apologia but rather a little bit of an unrealistic criticism of Clinton. There’s no such thing as a perfect candidate, after all.

This.

I don't agree with all of or even much of Charles' criticisms but I would never think he was a Trump apologist.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Dec 5th 2018 at 3:50:25 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#263649: Dec 5th 2018 at 1:37:42 PM

Guys, not every criticism of Hillary is secret apologia for Trump.

Exactly zero people in this thread have ever even implied such a thing.

i'm tired, my friend
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#263650: Dec 5th 2018 at 1:56:26 PM

Middle America would benefit from Hillary but that isn't the area I think she fails as I'm more concerned with the genuinely destitute in America. A group which benefited tremendously under Obama despite Republican sabotage

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

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