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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#263576: Dec 4th 2018 at 7:55:29 PM

What Republican voters wanted was an authoritarian strong man to protect them from threats outside the tribe.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#263577: Dec 4th 2018 at 7:57:29 PM

[up]The problem is, it's not enough. Anyone running up against Trump needs to be more than just not Trump. They need to have a message. Something beyond Trump. Something that makes people think they'll actually have a future rather than just staving off the Trumpocalypse. Because just presenting themselves as 'Not Trump' is a dead end.

...I think we have different ideas of what being 'Not Trump' would entail. To me, having a solid platform is necessary to look competent, which in turn is necessary to look like an actual alternative to Trump

I don't think someone like Sanders, running on a single issue, is viable, though. That provides an easy point of attack

And this does need to be a very negative campaign. People will vote for the incumbent if they think they're tolerable

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#263578: Dec 4th 2018 at 8:03:30 PM

I disagree about the negative, I think a backlash is coming against that sort of thing. A coherent, consistent vision of where you want the country to go is historically speaking almost always more successful. Negative campaigning works for Republicans because until very recently Democrats didn't have one.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#263579: Dec 4th 2018 at 8:45:11 PM

Trump doesn't strike me as much of what the Republicans want or embody. I mean aside from being evil. Trump spent the entire campaign mocking, insulting, and deriding the Republicans as well as their platforms. They're enslaved to his ideas, not the other way around (at least until Trump gets bored and they try to push their agenda through).

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#263580: Dec 4th 2018 at 8:48:15 PM

They're Not So Different, its just what they put the emphasis on. Trump emphasizes the bigotry while the Republican establishment prefers to dog whistle it.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#263581: Dec 4th 2018 at 8:52:42 PM

Trump is the GOP's id.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Kakuzan Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to. from Knock knock, open up the door, it's real. Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to.
#263582: Dec 4th 2018 at 9:07:51 PM

Trump is like that one loud mouthed buffoon in a gang of crooks and criminals. The others don't hate him out of some moral obligation, they hate him because he has the subtlety of a lit on fire truck ramming through a glass building.

Don't catch you slippin' now.
TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#263583: Dec 4th 2018 at 10:50:39 PM

I found both of them not being Sanders to be a massive selling point for either of them

You'd seriously support someone like Trump over Sanders? That's getting petty...

Before anyone tries to be a smartass and call me out, I never (to my recollection, which is admittedly imperfect) said anything remotely similar. Not without some serious twisting of the words, at least.

And yes I know I'm a touch late.

Edited by TroperOnAStickV2 on Dec 4th 2018 at 2:07:39 PM

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
JamieBGood meow Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
meow
#263584: Dec 5th 2018 at 12:14:18 AM

Mueller investigation: No jail time sought for Trump ex-adviser Michael Flynn

The memo points to Mr Flynn's "exemplary" military and public service and that he "deserves credit for accepting responsibility in a timely fashion and substantially assisting the government".

It had been thought details of Russian collusion might be included in the memo but the document says that, due to the "sensitive information about ongoing investigations", certain aspects have been sealed.

What's interesting about the memo is the two other prosecutors who co-signed it. Brandon Van Grack specialises in national security and counter-espionage, and Zainab Ahmad has expertise in international and extranational cases, particularly those relating to terrorism.

jamie-b-good.tumblr.com
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#263585: Dec 5th 2018 at 12:21:28 AM

[up][up]Please refrain from calling other posters "petty". Feel free to ask them to clarify why they would find Trump more appealing than Sanders. But don't resort to personal insults.

Also, don't preemptively accuse anyone who does criticize you of being a smartass.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#263586: Dec 5th 2018 at 1:14:09 AM

I would suggest that Flynn had to have sold his soul for that deal, except I'm pretty sure he doesn't have one. But nah, Flynn's info is just going to be extremely valuable in bringing Mueller Time to the rest of Trump's cronies.

I think Trump had better hope he dies in office, because while Mueller probably won't have a sitting President arrested, the moment the guy's out of office, some men in uniform will be there to take him off the Secret Service's relieved hands.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#263587: Dec 5th 2018 at 1:15:23 AM

Trump isn't going to die in office. Only the good die young. Meaning Trump will probably be a centenarian.

Disgusted, but not surprised
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#263588: Dec 5th 2018 at 1:49:49 AM

Nah, I don't think so. Centenarian needs more than (pretend) wealth seeing as lot of age based diseases cannot be treated.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#263589: Dec 5th 2018 at 1:51:46 AM

Honestly, I think a fascinating book would be discussing the places where Trump barrels through wanting to do whatever he wants versus the GOP's corporatism. There's Trump's overt horrific racism vs. their dogwhistles on one hand and then Trump just not supporting them taking down healthcare overtly because it would look bad on him. Then Trump wants Assad dead but the military ignores him outright.

Crazy world.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#263590: Dec 5th 2018 at 1:57:20 AM

[up][up]I was attempting to make a joke about how Trump is going to be extremely Long-Lived because he's such an asshole.

Clearly I failed.

Disgusted, but not surprised
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#263591: Dec 5th 2018 at 2:14:52 AM

Part of Flynn may also be that he's the Carrot for future cooperators to see what they can get.

I think Manafort is gonna get the Stick.

Edited by 3of4 on Dec 5th 2018 at 11:16:42 AM

"You can reply to this Message!"
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#263592: Dec 5th 2018 at 3:19:09 AM

I think the best option for a Democratic presidential candidate will be to run on a campaign of "Trump is an incompetent clown, I am not".

Sorry, but as much as this would be great in a rational world, ours is not a rational world. Numerous studies have shown that the vast majority of people do not vote on a rational basis, or on ideology or a careful comparison of party platforms or issues or whatnot. They vote based on emotion, on what the people around them think, on whether they like or relate to a candidate* on the basis of religion or gut feeling or prejudices or based on issues that have nothing to do with a political race. (Such as "My boss just gave me a raise, I'm doing fine, so I'm going to vote to keep the same political party in power") There's even a small (but not so small as to be completely irrelevant in a tight race) percentage of people who will vote based on who seems to be likely to win, because voting for the winning team makes them feel a rush of victory similar to watching their favorite sports team win.

So just giving coldly logical reasons ad showing you're more competent is not a winning strategy, or else Goerge W. Bush and Donald Trump would have never won presidential nominations, let alone elections. You need to also get the enthusiasm that comes from people charisma and people deciding they like you for completely illogical reasons.

Convincing people you're the best choice gets you most of your voter turnout, but getting people to like you enough that they're enthusiastic to vote for you is what puts you over the top, what transforms an even election into a big victory. So it's never just about who's most competent or qualified, even if it should be. And that can't be overlooked.

* I've never quite gotten over hearing an uncle of mine who is a very smart man say during the 2008 primary elections that he was willing to back either Obama or Mike Huckabee, because they were two candidates whose demeanor he liked the most. Completely different philosophies, directions for the government, and means of governing, but who cares about that shit, right?

Edited by TheWanderer on Dec 5th 2018 at 6:20:47 AM

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#263593: Dec 5th 2018 at 3:45:24 AM

You need to offer the voters more than "I am not as bad as the other guy". You need to give them some sort of vision. That is part of the reason the voters didn't come out for Hillary, because she didn't really have a vision. Meanwhile Trump activated new voters by, well, promising that he would finally act on their racist views.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#263594: Dec 5th 2018 at 4:02:07 AM

Clinton had a massive list of policy proposals, people just refused to listen for a host of stupid reasons.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#263595: Dec 5th 2018 at 4:07:15 AM

BUT HER EMAILS and stuff.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#263596: Dec 5th 2018 at 4:49:43 AM

Naturally she had, but she didn't have one clear message the standard voter would get. Preferable summoned up in three words.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#263597: Dec 5th 2018 at 5:18:49 AM

[up]That's a little too simplistic. Even Trump's "vision" had four words in it: make America great again

Disgusted, but not surprised
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#263598: Dec 5th 2018 at 5:27:13 AM

[up]"America" is a freebie and doesn't count.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#263599: Dec 5th 2018 at 5:42:54 AM

[up][up] Sure, but he also had "lock her up" to make up for it.

Reflextion from a post-sanity world (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
#263600: Dec 5th 2018 at 6:05:31 AM

Trump also had the advantage of being able to work with human nature, while Clinton was trying to work against it.

Someone did tell me life was going to be this way.

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