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DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#263301: Dec 2nd 2018 at 11:51:21 AM

1. Wishful thinking.

2. That's what gets the Dems in trouble, come election time (though this doesnt apply to so called "safe seats", so it only matters to those who want to flip red districts blue and take the Congress back).

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#263302: Dec 2nd 2018 at 11:52:23 AM

The “Clinton Strategy” would have worked just fine for any other Democrat.

They should have sent a poet.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#263304: Dec 2nd 2018 at 12:02:48 PM

Maybe, but its not just about the White House, and its not just about winniing.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#263305: Dec 2nd 2018 at 12:12:50 PM

The “Clinton Strategy” would have worked just fine for any other Democrat.

I think the opposite. The Democrats need to move left not right. Obama moved the party left considerably even if he wasn't as radical as he could have been. He was still much much more progressive than the average.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#263306: Dec 2nd 2018 at 12:18:23 PM

[up]I'd agree. I think "centrist" Democrats have inadvertently helped the American drift rightward by not encouraging a gap between the GOP and the Dems themselves. By chasing the chimera of the independent (and therefore purple) voter, they didn't encourage centrist conservatives who they could continue to work with to form a coherent bloc against the radical reactionary wing of the Right.

But, hindsight is 20:20. :/

Edited by Euodiachloris on Dec 2nd 2018 at 8:22:28 PM

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#263307: Dec 2nd 2018 at 12:18:50 PM

The voters have been the victims of a systematic conservative propaganda campaign for over forty years, and no longer understand what progressive means. We need a candidate who can communicate clearly what the central principles are and why they would be good for the majority.

Edited by DeMarquis on Dec 2nd 2018 at 3:19:17 PM

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#263308: Dec 2nd 2018 at 12:32:12 PM

Just to make it clear, “Clinton strategy” in this context means the strategy she recently endorsed alongside Tony Blair and others, not the strategy she ran on in 2016.

It’s sad to see two figures who once championed the move leftward now call for an appeal to racism.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#263309: Dec 2nd 2018 at 12:38:40 PM

[up] I don't know if Tony Blair "championed the move leftward", but essentially this.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#263310: Dec 2nd 2018 at 1:00:54 PM

Trump wasn't on the ballot in 2018, though.

Trump's game plan in 2018 was to tell people that they needed to turn out and vote for him. But he wasn't on the ballot, and I remember some interviews with Republicans straight up saying, "I'm not voting because I can't vote for Trump this year."

Trump was absolutely on the ballot, it's no coincidence that a historically unpopular President lead to his party suffering serious problems in the midterms.

I can state with certainty that if we had President Clinton then it would've likely been a Red-wave, Trump wasn't the sole cause of 2018's results but he was a major one.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#263311: Dec 2nd 2018 at 1:01:27 PM

[up][up]Uh, no. Blair and rightward drift towards a fantasy centre, sure. :/

Edited by Euodiachloris on Dec 2nd 2018 at 9:02:05 AM

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#263313: Dec 2nd 2018 at 1:09:46 PM

Probably bored and wanted to watch Fox News with his family telling him "your the bestest prez evar!" But he works SO HARD GUYS!!1!

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#263314: Dec 2nd 2018 at 1:24:18 PM

Oscasio Cortez has said that it's frustrating that lawmakers enjoy cheap government insurance while opposing Medicare-For-All

Cortez is completely right, it's galling that privileged people continue to oppose Medicare-For-All when it's such necessary and beneficial reform.

Hopefully, the Democratic Party can coalesce around it and work towards laying down the foundation for healthcare reform.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#263315: Dec 2nd 2018 at 1:34:11 PM

The Democrats need to move slightly to the left, but not too far, either. This has to be a progress. But they need to focus on getting non-voters to vote instead of constantly focussing on winning over republican voters. (Basically, I think that they could win easily on the principle of a social market economy, but they need to steer away from moving to the so called progressive left).

Edited by Swanpride on Dec 2nd 2018 at 1:35:41 AM

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#263316: Dec 2nd 2018 at 1:49:07 PM

They need to focus on getting a majority to support progressive programs and solutions.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#263317: Dec 2nd 2018 at 2:06:42 PM

[up] Well, yes. But they need to take a page out of the German conservatives while doing so. So, no arguing based on "it's the right thing to do", sell it based on "it is good for the economy". Healthcare for all is good for the economy because a healthy workforce is more productive. Paid sick-days for employees is good for the economy because someone who stays home with his flu won't infect everyone else. Aso.

AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#263318: Dec 2nd 2018 at 2:10:04 PM

...The American Left should be taking a page from the German conservatives?

I, uh...no offence, but I don't know if that's great advice. I'd think that we should probably look at what other parties like Labour in Britain or the Socialists in France are doing, right?

(Well, maybe look at what not to do in the case of the latter)

Edited by AzurePaladin on Dec 2nd 2018 at 5:15:18 AM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#263319: Dec 2nd 2018 at 2:11:24 PM

Yeah, especially considering they mostly do it only to undercut the actual left-ish parties most of the time. Need I remind you of the BS we had to get *finally* Marriage for Everyone?

"You can reply to this Message!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#263320: Dec 2nd 2018 at 2:12:43 PM

@Swanpride: Funny you should say that, for Despite Big House Losses, G.O.P. Shows No Signs of Course Correction

Also, on top of being unethical Trump's immigration policy is a goldmine of corruption with a side order of sexual abuse.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Dec 2nd 2018 at 11:13:28 AM

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#263321: Dec 2nd 2018 at 2:15:23 PM

Yeah, arguing “do the right thing because it helps the economy” has basically never worked. Because fiscal conservatives suddenly don’t care about a deficit if it comes from giving massive tax breaks to the rich, spending billions on military, and screwing over minorities.

“Do the right thing BECAUSE IT’S THE RIGHT THING” is far more effective. Even some far-right types have been offput by these arguments, like the woman who heard Ocasio-Cortez and went “huh, Ocasio-Cortez says my kids have the right to food and healthcare no matter who I am, that sounds so nice WAIT NO NO SOCIALIST EVIL.”

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#263322: Dec 2nd 2018 at 2:17:16 PM

There's also the fact that the American and German Electorate are very different cultures and honestly, assuming that 'these people over there are just like my people over here' is just...eh. So very eh.

"You can reply to this Message!"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#263323: Dec 2nd 2018 at 2:17:54 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] The German conservatives are actually slightly to the left of the Democrats is a lot of issues (though not on gay marriage). The German centre is not at the same place where it is in the US.

[up][up][up][up] Didn't mean that they should take their whole manifesto, but considering how obsessed Americans are with the economy and with being successful and how much they scoff over hand-outs, reframing the "hand-outs" as economically smart investments would go a long way for democrats to sell more social politics in a society in which "the winner takes it all" mentality is still strong.

Plus, what the Democrats want is basically a social market economy and the German conservative more or less invented the concept - and implemented it.

[up] That was not my train of thought. I was specifically thinking in terms of what I know about the US electorate. Which is obsessed with economy. So, tell them its great for the economy. Don't put the word "social" in your argument, because then they think "socialist" and confuse it with "communist". (and yes, I know that's not the same, but most of the standard US voter doesn't).

Edited by Swanpride on Dec 2nd 2018 at 2:20:14 AM

RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#263324: Dec 2nd 2018 at 2:18:39 PM

While I wouldn't want this to happen even if I don't like the guy, I do fear what might happen if he was to die in office. He's in his seventies, in a very stressful job and from what I understand not the healthiest president. It's a possibility and I'm wondering what will happen if it does, mainly out of concern for the kind of chaos this might bring

AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#263325: Dec 2nd 2018 at 2:21:44 PM

[up][up] Yeah, I know that. I still don't think we should be taking our cues from the Center-Right, even if it would be a little to our left here. How about we actually push to be similar to the Left in Europe on economics?

Also, that is a wicked huge generalization of what Democrats want.

Edited by AzurePaladin on Dec 2nd 2018 at 5:22:30 AM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer

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