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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#263201: Dec 1st 2018 at 7:20:24 AM

"They could do try arming and training the locals to resist Russian forces just like before"

This but unironically.

SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#263202: Dec 1st 2018 at 7:26:21 AM

H.W. asked Trump to be his V.P. in 1992. It is in that moment that Trump's political aspirations started. Oh, and let's not forget that he's the one who appointed Clarence Thomas.

So no, I don't feel any grief for H.W.'s passing.

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#263203: Dec 1st 2018 at 7:32:11 AM

[up] ... Wait, what?! He actually did that???

He died after seeing his own son humiliated, destroyed and reduced to "please clap".
I had to google Bush "please clap" to understand what this is referring to, because I legitimately did not know about this despite having been keenly watching the online news for headlines about the US presidential election in 2016. It managed to see Jeb Bush entering the GOP primaries, and caught wind of him failing to gather support, but somehow the "please clap" thing never showed up even once on my radar.

That's... That was really sad. Pitiable. I'd actually wish this would happen to Trump at the end of his political career, if not worse (like, actually being booed and heckled by his own "supporters" instead of mere silence).

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#263204: Dec 1st 2018 at 7:43:21 AM

Arguably, the biggest criticism is they DIDN'T remove Saddam Hussein when the entire world was there and he was committing genocide.

In which case, instead of the current situation in Iraq having lasted 15 long, exhausting years, it would have lasted 27 long, exhausting years by now. The military planners of 1991 reckoned that invading Iraq would have only caused more instability, overextension of coalition forces and general chaos in the Middle East.

Unfortunately, by 2003, the chicken-hawks pushing for Saddam to be removed in '91 were now in cabinet positions instead.

And lest we forget, this is also part of Bush Sr's political legacy.

Edited by math792d on Dec 1st 2018 at 5:29:57 PM

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#263205: Dec 1st 2018 at 9:05:33 AM

Now see I thought that without the invasion, we would have seen a genocide/ethnic cleansing campaign carried out by Saddam against the Kurds.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#263206: Dec 1st 2018 at 9:08:35 AM

[up][up]

Yeah, it's why Dick Cheney was roundly mocked when footage of him in the Bush Administration talking about how invading Iraq would be a "quagmire" back in the '90s resurfaced after the invasion in the '00s.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#263207: Dec 1st 2018 at 9:19:52 AM

I thought Trump wanted to run for president in '88, but decided against it? Or was that his father?

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#263208: Dec 1st 2018 at 9:39:26 AM

This is a bit obscure and older, but I think it’s worth talking about. I know an episode of Mueller, She Wrote discussesed this, but heres a quick summary of the most important bits from the New Yorker Article about Trump Tower Baku.

This is the Trump Baku International Hotel, @Ivanka Trump’s largest project for the Trump Organization.

It never opened, but served as the entrepôt into the life of crime of @Ivanka Trump and the counterintelligence nightmare in which the Trumps have trapped the nation.

The Trump Baku was conceived as a collaboration between an Azerbaijani company, Baku Century XXI, and the Trump Organization.

The building sits in the dangerous run-down eastern section of the Azerbaijani city Baku. In addition to the high crime, tangle of roads, and Soviet-era apartment blocks, the Trump Baku is located in an area of the city best known for toxic waste disposal.

The deal for branding, design, and management of the Trump Baku was abandoned by the Trump Org. in Dec., 2016. However, by the time it had already completed its purpose, which had little to do with housing and even less to do with running a profitable business.

The Trump Baku is what is known as a patronage machine: a construction project built for the sole purpose of channeling money from tainted sources into the international financial system.

In this case, the tainted money was flowing from an Azerbaijani oligarch family known as the Mammadovs.

The Mammadovs were redirecting public Azerbaijani funds, as well as funds from an even more unseemly source: The Iranian Revolutionary Guard.

The Iranian Revolutionary Guard operates a string of semi-legitimate business, which it uses to reach its procurement tentacles into every corner of the globe. It is also a crucial avenue through which the Iranian regime obtains sanctioned goods.

So how does @Ivanka Trump fit into this picture? Her Trump Baku project was a vehicle used by the Iranians to shuttle money from cash balances, into international bank accounts controlled by the Mammadovs.

The process was fairly simple; The Mammadovs owned an a development bank in Azerbaijan. All payments for Ivanka’s Trump Baku project were paid to this bank. The Iranians paid the Mammadovs in cash, and then redirected the laundered cash flow from the Mammadovs’ bank.

Many of these offshore banking flows were revealed in the Panama Papers, which is why @Ivanka Trump is so concerned about the Deutsche Bank raids.

If you’re thinking laundering money for Iranian mullahs through fradulent Azerbaijani construction projects sounds illegal, you’d be right. In fact @Sen Sherrod Brown sent a letter prior to the 2016 election regarding @Ivanka Trump’s possible violation of the FCPA.

The FCPA is the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, an American law which makes it illegal for a U.S. citizen, such as @Ivanka Trump, to engage in a foreign project which has the primary purpose of laundering corrupt funds.

Edited by megaeliz on Dec 1st 2018 at 12:44:36 PM

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#263209: Dec 1st 2018 at 10:45:35 AM

The man will end his days, bitter and alone, all his family in jail, his "friends" long gone, forgotten by the public.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
TechPriest90 Servant of the Omnissiah from Collegia Titanica, Mars, Sol System Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Servant of the Omnissiah
#263210: Dec 1st 2018 at 10:49:04 AM

He had better not be forgotten, lest we get another like him. Bitter, alone and abandoned I can agree with.

I hold the secrets of the machine.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#263211: Dec 1st 2018 at 10:50:55 AM

Oh, I am sure that Trump will long be remembered by some of the more pro-Trump places of the US.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#263212: Dec 1st 2018 at 11:02:02 AM

[up]Yeah, Obama and Trump will be remenber as two side of how america change in policy, one could said bush was the last president who can be talk by the other side, and even sign of polarization was already happeing back them.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
TechPriest90 Servant of the Omnissiah from Collegia Titanica, Mars, Sol System Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Servant of the Omnissiah
#263213: Dec 1st 2018 at 11:04:26 AM

[up][up] Not unless some other demagogue comes by and hijacks it. It's something I've noted about rural areas - they don't necessarily agree with him. It's a way of sticking a middle-finger to those they think are responsible for their rather precarious situation. It's a cry for help that's gone unheeded in the cacophony of everything else in the cities.

There's barely any jobs, rotting infrastructure, barely anything other than bare-bones government assistance and the youngsters are lighting out for the cities the moment they can. That hopelessness is eating them alive.

The worst part is that the slow-death of traditional news media in America has meant that even local newspapers and TV stations which used to point out problems are long gone. Instead, you have national level news outlets, who don't give a shit about them and instead focus on national (non)issues. The rural folk think they've been ignored completely - and they're right.

Shit, at least Trump pretended to stick up for them. Who else even bothered?

No wonder he got the vote from them. Not just bigotry or racism or xenophobia - all of that did motivate turnout, sure - but the prime driver was telling "them dang-blasted liberal city slickers" where to shove it and pay attention to them.

Edited by TechPriest90 on Dec 1st 2018 at 2:04:38 PM

I hold the secrets of the machine.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#263214: Dec 1st 2018 at 11:08:51 AM

[up]That is true to some extent, another is that many of them identified with imagie of "strong, nonsense, self regulating, hard" the republican promote even when it was far for the truth.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#263215: Dec 1st 2018 at 11:50:08 AM

Shit, at least Trump pretended to stick up for them. Who else even bothered?

The Democratic Party.

For literal years the Democrats have tried to offer them policy that could help their communities, but because we also care about minorities they've just spat in our faces.

Heck, the Democrats are still trying. They have unveiled a universal high speed internet plan to help give rural areas the means to enter the 21st century and improve their economic position.

So don't you dare pretend that no one has offered rural communities anything, they have and have just been turned down. The only thing Trump offered was racism, which they happily took.

No wonder he got the vote from them. Not just bigotry or racism or xenophobia - all of that did motivate turnout, sure - but the prime driver was telling "them dang-blasted liberal city slickers" where to shove it and pay attention to them.

I see zero reasons to believe this actually true, Trump did not run a campaign on getting attention to rural areas. He ran on a campaign of racial resentment and Reaction against multiculturalism and tolerance.

This narrative is simply a different version of the "economic anxiety" nonsense, instead of acknowledging the clear cause of racism there is this desperate desire amongst (white) people to find another reason that all these white people voted for a racist ignorant demagogue.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Dec 1st 2018 at 2:53:35 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#263216: Dec 1st 2018 at 11:54:47 AM

Reminder: Just about all the data has shown that places facing -actual- Economic Anxiety tended to vote Clinton.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#263217: Dec 1st 2018 at 11:56:32 AM

Pardon, Fourthspartan, but the claim was "not just", not "not". Saying or proving that bigotry played a role is easy, proving that other things didn't play a role is not so easy.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#263218: Dec 1st 2018 at 12:02:21 PM

Pardon, Fourthspartan, but the claim was "not just", not "not". Saying or proving that bigotry played a role is easy, proving that other things didn't play a role is not so easy.

I disagree, they said the "prime driver" (i.e the main factor) that pushed rural support for Trump was getting attention from urban people who ignore them.

Which is ridiculous, there is no evidence to support that claim.

The same cannot be said for racism being the primary motivator, which has extensive evidence.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Dec 1st 2018 at 3:02:52 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#263219: Dec 1st 2018 at 12:10:54 PM

[up]It's wrong but not for that reason.

Trump wasn't elected by a vast swell of the working man. He was elected by a vast collection of middle class and upper class white people, men and women. Basically people who WEREN'T concerned where their next meal was coming from, white or black or hispanic.

It's one of the great tricks of the Republicans trying to direct Democrat fury against the poor of America and divide themselves.

(And I was initially wrong about this myself)

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Dec 1st 2018 at 12:11:43 PM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#263220: Dec 1st 2018 at 1:14:48 PM

Florida Gov. Scott ousts Broward elections supervisor Snipes, charges 'inexcusable actions'
The Republican governor said taxpayers should no longer be forced to pay the salary of someone so incompetent.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna942491

First couple paragraphs:

Florida Gov. Rick Scott removed embattled Florida elections supervisor Brenda Snipes on Friday, citing "misfeasance, incompetence and neglect of duty" after widespread vote-counting issues in Broward County during the closely watched gubernatorial and Senate races.

Scott issued an executive order ousting Snipes, who had previously announced her retirement effective in early January, and he appointed Peter Antonacci who heads Enterprise Florida, a public-private joint venture that promotes business development in the state.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#263221: Dec 1st 2018 at 1:17:43 PM

I 0% trust Scott’s appointee. Scott picked him, which means he’s probably a Brian Kemp type.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#263223: Dec 1st 2018 at 1:34:11 PM

Didn't she announce that she would leave her office anyway? Why is he now making a fuss around it? To distract from the actual election manipulations the Republicans conducted?

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#263224: Dec 1st 2018 at 1:36:51 PM

Yes.

"You can reply to this Message!"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#263225: Dec 1st 2018 at 1:41:22 PM

In which case, instead of the current situation in Iraq having lasted 15 long, exhausting years, it would have lasted 27 long, exhausting years by now. The military planners of 1991 reckoned that invading Iraq would have only caused more instability, overextension of coalition forces and general chaos in the Middle East.

Yes, because the situation is exactly the same and it was removing a murderous genocidal dictator from power that caused the problem and not the fact it was brutally mishandled, no plan for rebuilding the economy, no international support, and a dismantling of the Iraqi army.

Millions of innocent people died because of the lack of a finishing to the situation and that's the heads of those who left Saddam in power. It also weakened the global authority of the alliance of world nations.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Dec 1st 2018 at 1:42:35 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

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