Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Yeah, this is getting into that forbidden territory. Reid would count as a compassionate abortion opponent who recognizes that alternatives must be provided.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"People just can't keep from getting angry and incivil about it.
![]()
![]()
That piece is evocative, but ultimately useless, since the national GOP has absolutely no self-awareness left and shows every sign of continuing to descend into a pit of white nationalism.
Edited by Fighteer on Nov 21st 2018 at 10:10:54 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Speaking of California and House, the 21st district is still undecided. Democrats are trying to knock incumbent David Valadao off. That district went heavily for Hillary in 2016 but Valadao held on by working local issues such as water politics.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanSeptimusHeap drew my attention to this thread concerning Mia Love's failure to be re-elected, so for those who are interested, here's some "insider" thoughts from someone actually living and working in Utah. Sorry if it's a bit long.
I don't live in her congressional district, though I did a few years ago when she was first elected. Utah's 4th congressional district is relatively new - it was only added after the 2010 census and the first candidates ran in 2012. The district is a good-sized slice of Utah, but most of the people in the district live either in Salt Lake City or Provo. SLC is the most liberal/progressive part of the state (SLC currently has a Democratic mayor who is a lesbian) and Provo, where BYU is located, is one of the most conservative. The election was very close; less than 700 votes decided it out of around 270,000 ballots cast. It's only about 21 votes from the threshold that would have granted Love an automatic recount. Voter turnout was very high, estimated as high as 82% in Salt Lake County, and she actually received more votes in this election than she did in 2014 when she was first elected.
Mia Love is the first female Republican African-American (though Haitian-American is more accurate) elected to Congress. She seems a nice person, and I voted for her in 2014, but the general feeling in the state is that she didn't do much to distinguish herself in her two terms. She also had some campaign finance irregularities that were in the news just before the election. National pundits are making much of the fact that she is not a Trump fan, but Utah as a whole isn't much of a Trump fan either, really. In 2016 much of Utah basically held our noses and voted against his opponent rather than for him (for the record I voted for a 3rd-party candidate).
As for why Mia Love was not re-elected, the pundits here in Utah are saying that the Medical Marijuana Initiative that was on the ballot (it passed narrowly) drove a strong Salt Lake turnout and that Utah county (where Provo is) did a horrible job of running their first mostly mail-in ballot election. Many, many people in Utah county still showed up in person to vote last Tuesday and there weren't enough polling places. Huge lines and long waits were the result, and it's thought that many would-be Mia voters simply didn't have the time to spend four hours in line to vote for her, and either gave up or didn't show up when they saw the news stories about the lines. Considering how narrow the margin was, it seems quite possible that the bungling of Utah county election officials may have changed the result. They really should have known better, since they should have seen the long lines we had in Salt Lake and Davis counties last time when those counties changed to a primarily mail-in ballot system but a lot of voters still showed up in person.
Religion is always an issue in politics in Utah, but both Ben McAddams and Mia Love are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, so it wasn't much of an issue in this particular election.
It's perhaps notable that Mia Love has not yet conceded. She's off with family for Thanksgiving, but she may yet ask for a recount or some other measure. She filed a lawsuit shortly after the election asking Salt Lake County about the methods used to verify voter signatures on the mail-in ballots. The lawsuit was dismissed. She got a bad public reaction to that lawsuit because she only targeted Salt Lake County with it.
There's also a good possibility she'll run for the seat again in 2020, and my well win it. (I first said 2018 in this post. My, how time flies. I'm still thinking it's 2016, I guess)
Edited by Bense on Nov 21st 2018 at 9:21:50 AM
Today's What The Fuck Just Happened Today preview:
Both parties have reached an impasse as a partial government shut down looms two weeks away. Trump wants Republicans to secure at least $5 billion to pay for his border wall, which is much more than Democrats are willing to give. (Politico)
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/21/trump-border-wall-congress-government-shutdown-1009349
The bipartisan leaders of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee sent a letter to Trump demanding that he say whether Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the killing of Jamal Khashoggi. Republican Sen. Bob Corker and Democrat Bob Menendez specifically asked whether the administration believed that bin Salman was involved in the murder. Under the Magnitsky Act, Trump can be required to determine whether a global leader was responsible for human rights violations. (Politico)
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/20/senators-trump-khashoggi-killing-1009549
From Septimus' article: “I believe that the party has to die before it can be rebuilt. And by die — I mean, completely decimated. And I think Tuesday night was a big step,’’ says veteran California GOP political consultant Mike Madrid. “There is no message. There is no messenger. There is no money. And there is no infrastructure.”
You know, I actually miss sincere, traditional conservatives. The lot that dominates the Republican party now has less in common with the conservative movement of 20 years ago than it does with Stormfront. Not that I necessarily agree with the views of, say, an Edmund Burke-style fiscal conservative, but at least they had a consistent world view that was based on logic. You could argue with them, compromise when necessary.
If California's Republican party ends up reformulating itself as a kind of return to sane political differences, I will be glad to see it happen.
I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.I would not be opposed to the current Republican party shrinking into obscurity while the Democrat party splits into a pair of new Left- and Right-wing majority parties.
That's wishful thinking, though. Republicans likely aren't going anywhere. Brand loyalty alone is enough to keep them going strong and that's before you get into the number of conservatives in America who really do legitimately share their terrible, terrible views and ideologies.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Agreed, that would be the optimal result.
I don't really agree with this, yes, it's true that assuming that such a thing will definitely happen is wishful thinking.
But with that said, the Republicans are facing an enormous demographics problem due to the fact that Millennials and post-Millenials are both highly diverse(!) and hostile to Republican ideology.
Now I want to emphasize that I'm not saying that we should take things for granted or assume inevitable victory but intellectually it offers no benefits to pretend that their issues aren't very real and very serious, they support is entirely from an aging base that has already decreased since 2016 and will continue to decrease.
Will that result in the destruction of their party? I haven't a clue, but what I do know is that we should not treat their position as massively secure when it absolutely is not.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Nov 21st 2018 at 1:17:00 PM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangThe GOP has been driven by resentment of the poor, white nationalism and a desire to control women for decades before Donald came along and removed the mask. That's not to say that "principled conservatives" have never existed or don't exist still, but the larger GOP base has proven quite thoroughly that their votes are not decided by a carefully considered and thoughtful devotion to a small government, fiscal responsibility ideology.
Edited by Draghinazzo on Nov 21st 2018 at 2:32:45 PM
I could see them rebranding with a new name in the far future in an attempt to distance themselves from the populist movements that kept taking over the party,they'll at least they'll make a great effort to claim they've reformed into a 'New Party' but as they say " a leopard can't change its spots"
have a listen and have a link to my discord serverReinvention is hard with politics being so Internet-centric these days. A vote with Trump might not be in the news all day every day, but the information is much more easily accessible. When opposition research consists of a five minute Google search, everything sticks. Combine that with the GOP's voter base being the decrepit elderly, with Trump chainsawing any claim to GOP respectability, and the general sorting away from what is considered the middle in every election, and the GOP will either have to accept some sort of liberal consensus or be marginalized entirely.
Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Nov 21st 2018 at 2:15:05 PM
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

I sense that this will go badly...
Here, have a piece on California Republicans
and their meltdown.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman