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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
To be fair, the Children Are Innocent trope is inspired by real world beliefs that children are innocent. And on the flipside the prevalence of Children Are Innocent causes people to assume it's true in real life. People know better than to believe fiction but when a lot of fiction writers are saying the same thing eventually people start assuming they're on to something.
Personally I'd argue it's a case of judging a book by its cover. Children are cute, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're good. The same thing goes with animals, too. Dogs are not particularly great judges of character in real life, for example.
Leviticus 19:34If nothing else that very innocence is precisely why they can be as big a bastard as any adult.
Reposting here due to page-bottom:
https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2018/11/16/day-666/
https://apnews.com/a73ec89d94dc467680874435fcfef2a6
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/16/matthew-whitaker-mueller-senate-republicans-995056
Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker assured Lindsey Graham that he won't end Mueller's investigation, despite previously publicly disparaging the special counsel. (Bloomberg)
Dick Cheney's former top national security aide has come under scrutiny from Mueller. The special counsel has been looking into the communications and political dealings of John Hannah, the former Cheney adviser who later worked on Trump's State Department transition team, including his interactions with Lebanese-American businessman and fixer George Nader, who brokered meetings between foreign dignitaries and the Trump campaign, as well as Joel Zamel, social media "guru" with deep ties to Israeli intelligence. (Daily Beast)
https://www.thedailybeast.com/top-cheney-aide-in-muellers-sights-as-probe-expands
George Papadopoulos asked a federal judge to keep him out of prison until a constitutional challenge to Mueller's investigation is resolved. The former Trump campaign adviser pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI and is scheduled to serve a 14-day sentence starting on Nov. 26. (Washington Post)
2/ The Justice Department inadvertently revealed that it secretly filed criminal charges against WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange. The disclosure came in an unrelated court filing where prosecutors inadvertently pasted text from a similar court filing into the wrong document. The filing abruptly switched on the second page to discussing someone named "Assange," who had been charged under seal that was the subject of significant publicity, lived abroad, and would need to be extradited. It's unclear what Assange, who's been living in the Ecuadorean Embassy in London since 2012, has been charged with, but the charges likely center around the publication of emails from Democrats during the 2016 presidential campaign, and may involve the Espionage Act, which criminalizes the disclosure of national defense-related information. "The court filing was made in error," said a spokesperson for the U.S. attorney's office in Virginia. "That was not the intended name for this filing." (New York Times / Washington Post / Wall Street Journal / Bloomberg / The Guardian)
3/ A federal judge ruled in favor of CNN and Jim Acosta, ordering the White House to temporarily restore the press credentials that Trump had taken away last week. The suit alleges that CNN and Acosta's First and Fifth Amendment rights were violated by last week's suspension of his press pass. The White House said it would follow the court order and "temporarily reinstate the reporter's hard pass," as well as "develop rules and processes to ensure fair and orderly press conferences in the future." The judge, Timothy J. Kelly of Federal District Court in Washington, ruled that the Trump administration had most likely violated Acosta's due process rights, but declined to weigh in on the First Amendment issues cited by CNN. "We want total freedom of the press," Trump told reporters in the Oval Office. If journalists don't "behave," Trump said, "we'll end up back in court and we'll win." Trump added: "We have to practice decorum." (New York Times / Washington Post / Politico / CNN / The Hill)
https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/16/media/cnn-trump-lawsuit-hearing/index.html
Notables.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-idUSKCN1NK1ZH
Chuck Grassley will move from the Senate Judiciary Committee to the Finance Committee next year. Lindsey Graham is in line to replace him as chairman of the Judiciary. (Politico)
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/16/grassley-finance-committee-996195
Besty DeVos has received around-the-clock security from U.S. Marshals since she was confirmed, which could cost taxpayers $19.8 million through Sept. 2019. Jeff Sessions first approved the protection on Feb. 13, 2017. No other cabinet member receives an armed detail. (NBC News)
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-pentagon-audit-idUSKCN1NK2MC
The Pentagon failed its first-ever comprehensive audit. The audit found U.S. Defense Department accounting discrepancies that could take years to resolve. Some 1,200 auditors examined financial accounting on a wide range of spending, including on weapons systems, military personnel, and property. "We failed the audit, but we never expected to pass it," said Deputy Secretary of Defense Patrick Shanahan. "It was an audit on a $2.7 trillion dollar organization, so the fact that we did the audit is substantial," he added. (Reuters)
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-pentagon-audit-idUSKCN1NK2MC
North Korea announced a "successful" and "highly significant" test of an "ultramodern tactical weapon." It didn't appear to be a test of a nuclear device or a long-range missile with the potential to target the U.S. (ABC News / Associated Press)
https://apnews.com/957a7ebc55554e32bfb7681f5609b5f8
A Mississippi Senator said she thinks it's a "great idea" to make it harder for "liberal folks" to vote. Last week, Cindy Hyde-Smith "joked" that if she was invited "to a public hanging, I'd be on the front row." She has refused to apologize for her "public lynching" comment, and claims her voter suppression comment was the result of "selectively edit[ing]." (Washington Post)
The Supreme Court will hear arguments over whether Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross can be compelled to testify in a case regarding the addition of a citizenship question to the 2020 census. The addition of the question has been challenged in six lawsuits around the country. (Washington Post)
Another Trump adviser is writing a tell-all book about his time in the White House. The book by Cliff Sims, who joined the West Wing staff on Day One as a special assistant to the president, is set to be published in January. (Politico)
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/16/trump-white-house-cliff-sims-book-996198
Trump offered to nominate Mira Ricardel as ambassador to Estonia after Melania forced the deputy national security adviser out of the White House. Ricardel turned down the posting, but has since been offered nearly a dozen jobs from which to choose. (Bloomberg)
Trump plans to nominate acting EPA Administrator Andrew Wheeler as the permanent head of the environmental agency. Wheeler previously represented coal and energy-industry interests as a lobbyist. (USA Today / New York Times)
Trump honored a campaign donor with the Presidential Medal of Freedom – the nation's highest civilian commendation. Miriam Adelson and her husband, Sheldon Adelson, a Las Vegas casino magnate and one of the nation's most powerful Republican donors, gave Trump's presidential campaign $30 million in the final months of the 2016 race. They also donated $100 million to the Republican Party during this past election cycle. (NBC News / New York Times)
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/trump-honor-donor-s-wife-presidential-award-n937101
Trump has been asking aides and advisers whether they think Pence is loyal. While Trump hasn't suggested dropping Pence from the 2020 ticket, outside Trump advisers have suggested that Pence may have used up his usefulness. Others believe that asking about Pence's loyalty is a proxy for asking about whether Nick Ayers is trustworthy, who Trump has considered replacing John Kelly with. (New York Times)
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/16/us/politics/mike-pence-trump-administration.html
Also:
"Abrams admits defeat in hard-fought Georgia governor race" - http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election/abrams-admits-defeat-in-hard-fought-georgia-governor-race-idUSKCN1NL26T
And on the local side, am article saying that at least 20,000 Idahoans with mental illness will be covered under the new Medicaid expansion, if the Red state's legislators don't get in the way:
"She can’t afford mental health care. Medicaid expansion changes that"
https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article221675995.html
Edited by sgamer82 on Nov 16th 2018 at 5:17:21 AM
Honestly, has nobody read Lord of the Flies? Naturally children can be cruel. And we know this. The point is more that for one, children are very vulnerable to the influence their parents inflict on them (meaning usually - not always - a cruel child is the result of a cruel upbringing) and two, we assume that children aren't really able to truly gauge the consequences of their actions. Which they can't btw. It's the red light phenomenon. An adult is able to oversee everything which is going on at the street and can cross it even if there is a red light with little risk because an adult is able to guess the speed of the traffic. But a child might just follow the example of the adult and get hit by a car, because said child doesn't have the same perspective.
That's why it is the job of the adult to keep the children away from certain influences.
Actually, it's not because of Children Are Innocent, but that it seems quite odd to me that a 10-year-old child, even if indoctrinated by a full-blown racist, would resort to writing a threatening letter to the girl (and using relatively big words like "terrorist") instead of going up to her and verbally insult her or even beat her up. Sounds like too much forethought for a child to put into their actions, IMO.
Edited by MarqFJA on Nov 16th 2018 at 4:35:17 PM
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Children are capable of putting a surprising amount of forethought and effort into their plans, especially if they think it's funny. Trust me, when I was in fourth grade, we were very naughty in a mean-spirited way (for example, someone tied my chair to my desk in the hopes that I'd trip over the rope - it didn't work, but still).
in general: A 10-year-old doing shit like this is indeed a criminal, but at that age, it's time for Staging an Intervention, not a full disciplinary process, as well as investigating their parents to see if they need to be dealt with and the kid possibly placed in a less toxic environment.
It can be presumed that, whether or not they're acting on specific orders, they're not fully responsible for the toxic ideas in their head. It's not that Children Are Innocent; it's the opposite. Children are not fully equipped to sort right from wrong or good ideas from bad ideas yet.
Edited by Ramidel on Nov 16th 2018 at 4:52:20 AM
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Yeah, no. For some kids, maybe all you need is an intervention. Maybe they just don't really know what they're doing, or maybe they're having to deal with shit at home and are taking it out on their classmates. But this isn't always the case. When my brother was 10 years old, he would beat me and insult me every single day, and threatened to kill me if I told our parents about it. He did this until the day he left for college. And he knew exactly what he was doing.
The point is that sometimes a full disciplinary measure is the only one available, because with some kids, they do know what they're doing. And that's sometimes the only way to deal with them. By contrast, my brother never recieved a full disciplinary process despite abusing me every day until I was 16. And on the rare occasions that my parents suspected there was something going on and tried to stage an intervention, it never took. Whereas if they had enacted full displinary measures, then maybe I wouldn't have been so fucking traumatized.
Edited by kkhohoho on Nov 16th 2018 at 8:16:56 AM
Actually, come to think of it-what are the procedures for a school if a student is a full-blown bigot? Especially if their parents are, too?
I mean in this specific case outright legal action and child services is on the table, though in a less openly violent situation it'd be a pretty big headache I'd imagine. Expressing Nazi sympathies, for example, is decidedly against the rules of public schools were I'm from...but outside of school it's legal.
I am reminded, though, of a time in middle school where I overheard a teacher lamenting that they couldn't threaten to call parents with one of their students (that they had just kicked out of class for being disruptive), because their parents simply didn't care. I can imagine this sort of thing is a massive pain for schools.
Leviticus 19:34From Children Are Innocent to Kids Are Cruel to Domestic Abuse - man, this thread took a turn for the dark pretty damn fast.
Then again, seeing the Courts tell the Dotard to reinstate Jim Acosta because he's going to lose the case anyway is Actually Pretty Funny.
I hold the secrets of the machine.@Tech Priest 90: To be fair, we started with religious persecution and threatening to murder a child. We brought up Children Are Innocent specifically to denounce it.
Leviticus 19:34I'm a little surprised Enfante Terrible hasn't been discussed, but then again that does seem like a version of Kids Are Cruel that uses the perception of innocence to their advantage.
Going back on topic. DeVos' proposals for sexual misconduct on colleges
has victims' advocates worried to say the least.
Edited by MorningStar1337 on Nov 16th 2018 at 7:23:16 AM
x5 He isn't married, nor has he kept on being abusive. After some soul-searching and digging himself out of alcoholism, he had an epiphany and realized what an asshole he was. It's still not something he could stop on his own without help, obviously, so he started seeing a therapist. He's still a Jerkass, but he's actually gotten better, and has said he is sorry for what he did. There's also a pretty good damn chance he had some sort of disorder. And seeing as both me and my other brother have aspergers, it actually doesn't surprise me. It by no means excuses what he did, but it explains a lot.
Still fucked me over for years.
Edited by kkhohoho on Nov 16th 2018 at 9:41:16 AM
Amusing recollection
about the CA-45, where Katie Porter won the district for the first time ever for the Democrats:
Which highlights two things to me; 1) Trump's vileness put into play districts that would normally have never been seriously considered winnable, and 2) Actually trying produces results.
Abrams defeat is unfortunate, still, it's heartening to see her going so close and only stopped because of cheating. They couldn't beat us fairly and it shows, hopefully, she or someone else tries again later.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang

Children Are Innocent is a trope of fiction. No idea why people so carelessly apply it to real life.
A fairly comprehensive LA Times article about the midterm
. Interesting tidbits:
- This is the midterm election with the highest turnout in over a century.
- The most commonly given rationale by non voters was "they didn’t know enough about the candidates or issues" IMO that's a consequence of the highly personalized politics of 2015 and forward.
- Trump has a real irk with California and its (have US states genders?) election.
- Ironically, the congresswoman Mia Love who was called out as a "loser" by Trump is - out of several Republicans- the Republican most likely to win their close House election.
- Not a lot of people were scared of having their vote suppressed, but "technical" issues were common.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman