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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#262026: Nov 15th 2018 at 3:26:50 PM

My honest feeling: If Donald J Trump wins a second term as President of the United States, the country will at that point deserve whatever it gets.

You know, I said that in 2016. "If we, as a nation, are actually stupid enough to elect Donald Trump as President, then we deserve President Donald Trump."

I've since changed my mind about that. Because the people stupid enough to elect Trump aren't the ones being punished for electing Trump.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#262027: Nov 15th 2018 at 3:27:49 PM

I'm actually curious if Trump getting elected despite losing the popular vote might be the thing that spurs serious changes in our election system (obviously after he's out of power, whenever that is).
It didn't when Bush won the first time. I don't expect it will now, either. I don't see EC changes happening unless they come from the side that actually won.
[up] That's why I said only if we did it twice, because by that point everyone who didn't want Trump will also have had ample opportunity to remove him and failed.

Edited by sgamer82 on Nov 15th 2018 at 4:29:22 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#262028: Nov 15th 2018 at 3:28:09 PM

Of course, the problem is that doing away with the Electoral Collegue would be setting a timebomb if done wrong because that could make the cities the prime seats of election while the countryside could be completely ignored in the presidential campaign.

I fail to see how giving people equal voices is a timebomb, there’s nothing bad about removing minority rule.

Also cities are already where people campaign, cities in swing states are still cities, cities in rural states are still cities. The countryside is already ignored and that’s a good thing.

A key concept of one person one vote democracy is that people matter more than land, I fail see the problem with that.

Edited by Silasw on Nov 15th 2018 at 11:29:55 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#262029: Nov 15th 2018 at 3:29:57 PM

[up][up][up] Weren't some of his trade tariffs negatively affecting areas that heavily favoured him in the 2016 election?

I think Trump's chances of reelection entirely depends on who he'll be going up against. It's almost pointless to even speculate about it while there's no clear Democratic frontrunner.

Edited by DrDougsh on Nov 15th 2018 at 3:30:22 AM

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#262030: Nov 15th 2018 at 3:31:45 PM

The problem is entirely practical. Its been there since the Constitution was first written-the price the agricultural states charge for their participation in our republic is disproportionate representation.

Edited by DeMarquis on Nov 15th 2018 at 6:33:44 AM

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#262031: Nov 15th 2018 at 3:33:35 PM

@ Silasw

The problem is that you are going to make a lot of states disenfranchised with the presidential race due to population alone. A candidate that manages to swing California, Texas, Florida and New York to its side could ignore the remaining states without harming his or her campaign.

Edited by raziel365 on Nov 15th 2018 at 3:34:10 AM

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#262032: Nov 15th 2018 at 3:35:22 PM

Only if we add up the votes by state. Thats also been there since the begining-the US wasnt designed to be a centralized nation, but a federation of semi-soverign states.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#262033: Nov 15th 2018 at 3:37:11 PM

The Electoral College is biased in favor of rural voters which at this point trend red so from a pragmatic perspective it's probably to the Democrats' benefit to abolish it.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#262034: Nov 15th 2018 at 3:38:49 PM

https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2018/11/15/day-665/

    Day 665: The envy of the world. 

1/ Trump made up an accusation that Robert Mueller was "horribly threatening" witnesses to force them to cooperate in the Russia probe. The renewed attack on the special counsel comes one day after Mitch Mc Connell blocked an effort to protect Mueller's work. Trump called Mueller's investigation "A TOTAL WITCH HUNT LIKE NO OTHER IN AMERICAN HISTORY!" and "a total mess" that has "gone absolutely nuts." Trump also defended his administration, saying it "is running very smoothly" and not "in chaos" or having a "meltdown," but rather the U.S. under his presidency has become "the envy of the world." He provided no evidence to support his claim. (New York Times / NBC News / Washington Post / Bloomberg / Huff Post)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-rages-about-mueller-probe-calls-it-total-mess-absolutely-n936526

Mueller's team is investigating witness tampering by Roger Stone. Mueller is exploring whether Stone tried to intimidate and discredit a witness who contradicted his story about his contacts with Wiki Leaks founder Julian Assange during the 2016 presidential campaign. (Wall Street Journal)

https://outline.com/7W7nAr

In a two-paragraph legal filing, Mueller said former Trump campaign aide Rick Gates is cooperating with prosecutors on "several ongoing investigations," and it's not appropriate to start his sentencing process. (Bloomberg)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-14/mueller-says-gates-still-cooperating-in-several-investigations

Text messages show Stone discussed Wiki Leaks with a friend six days before it began releasing the Clinton campaign's hacked emails. The text messages appear to show Randy Credico providing regular updates to Stone on Wiki Leaks founder Julian Assange's plans to release the hacked emails. In the exchange, Credico tells Stone on Oct. 1, 2016, that "Hillary's campaign will die this week" because of "big news Wednesday." Nothing about Clinton was released that Wednesday, but two days later, on Oct. 7, Wiki Leaks dropped its first dump of emails stolen from Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta. (NBC News)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/exclusive-text-messages-show-stone-friend-discussing-wikileaks-plans-n936371

2/ A federal judge denied a Russian firm's motion to dismiss charges filed by Mueller's team. The special counsel has accused Concord Management and Consulting of funding a propaganda operation to sway the 2016 presidential election in Trump's favor. Concord was charged with conspiring to defraud the U.S. government by hiding its election-related activities and failing to register as a foreign agent trying to influence the U.S. political process. Concord is controlled by Russian businessman Evgeny Prigozhin, a Russian oligarch with close ties to Putin. (Reuters / Politico / CNN)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-concord/u-s-judge-refuses-russian-firms-bid-to-dismiss-mueller-indictment-idUSKCN1NK2AK

3/ Saudi Arabia's public prosecutor is seeking the death penalty for five people involved in the death of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Another six suspects have been indicted. Saudi officials denied that King Salman or his son Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman had any knowledge of the operation. (New York Times / CNN / Washington Post)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/15/middleeast/jamal-khashoggi-saudi-prosecutor-death-penalty-intl/index.html

4/ The Trump administration sanctioned 17 Saudis accused of involvement in the killing of Khashoggi. Neither the U.S. nor Saudi's implicated Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, whom Turkey has indirectly accused of ordering Khashoggi's death. (New York Times / Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/2018/11/15/4385a472-e8e8-11e8-a939-9469f1166f9d_story.html

5/ The White House asked the Justice Department and FBI for ways to legally extradite an enemy of Turkish President Recep Erdogan in order to placate Turkey over the murder of Khashoggi. Turkish cleric Fethullah Gulen has lived in self-imposed exile in the U.S. for almost two decades. Erdogan accused Gulen of being behind a failed coup against his government in 2016. (NBC News)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/white-house-weighs-booting-erdogan-foe-u-s-appease-turkey-n933996?fbclid=IwAR3BYlc2EVQuug2z4MACKWy7CF1byB24mXHCX-GBNRP8tRkKs6tkb1NBKIk

6/ A federal judge ruled that Florida voters have until Saturday to correct their rejected mail-in and provisional ballots, saying the state's law requiring signatures on ballots to match those on file is being applied unconstitutionally. More than 4,000 ballots across 45 counties in Florida were not counted because of inconsistent signatures. In 22 other counties, the number is unknown. In the Senate race, Gov. Rick Scott (R) leads Sen. Bill Nelson (D) by fewer than 13,000 votes. In the gubernatorial race, Rep. Ron De Santis (R) leads Andrew Gillum (D) by nearly 34,000 votes. (Washington Post / ABC News / Buzz Feed News)

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/judge-sides-nelson-rules-florida-law-matching-ballot/story?id=59214194

7/ The same judge denied a request to extend the deadline for elections officials to complete a machine recount despite Palm Beach County's election supervisor saying they would not meet the deadline. Judge Mark Walker of the U.S. District Court in Tallahassee called Florida "the laughingstock of the world election after election and we chose not to fix this." Counties that do not complete the machine recount in time will revert to the unofficial results tabulated on Saturday. Races that remain within one quarter of one percentage point after the deadline will proceed to a manual recount, and will have until Sunday at noon to review ballots. (Washington Post / Wall Street Journal / NBC News / Reuters)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election/florida-races-to-complete-recount-in-u-s-senate-governor-races-idUSKCN1NK1ZH

8/ Palm Beach County missed the deadline for recounting votes in the state's Senate, governor's and agriculture-commissioner races. Counting machines overheated and stopped working at least twice this week. Florida will now manually recount the results in the U.S. Senate race, where about 12,600 votes separated Democratic incumbent Bill Nelson from Republican Rick Scott, the state's governor. (Washington Post / ABC News)

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/palm-beach-county-misses-florida-recount-deadline/story?id=59224752

Notables.

Trump will meet with Kim Jong Un for a second summit. The condition of the meeting does not include a requirement that North Korea provide a complete list of its nuclear weapons and missile sites. (NBC News)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/second-trump-kim-summit-go-ahead-without-list-nuclear-north-n936481

Stormy Daniels attorney Michael Avenatti was arrested for felony domestic violence. Officers in West Los Angeles took an incident report involving an allegation of domestic violence from an unidentified victim. Avenatti denied ever being "physically abusive," and called the felony allegation against him "completely bogus." (Politico / CNBC / Buzz Feed News)

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/14/michael-avenatti-arrest-domestic-dispute-991268

A federal judge will rule on restoring Jim Acosta's press pass on Friday, postponing a decision on granting CNN's request for a temporary restraining order and preliminary injunction. (Politico / ABC News / CNN)

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/15/cnn-lawsuit-decision-postponed-992672

Trump nominated a handbag designer to be the next ambassador to South Africa. Lana Marks is a member of Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort. Marks has no prior diplomatic experience. (Reuters / CNN / Huff Post)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-safrica-usa-diplomacy-idUSKCN1NK1OH

A man started shouting "Heil Hitler, Heil Trump" during intermission at a performance of "Fiddler on the Roof." The play is based on Yiddish stories and tells the tale of a Jewish family in Russia during the early 1900s. (Baltimore Sun / Talking Points Memo)

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-hippodrome-20181114-story.html

A 10-year-old Muslim girl found notes in her elementary school cubby that said "You're a terrorist" and "I will kill you." (CNN)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/14/us/framingham-hate-crime/index.html

Hate crimes in America rose 17% last year – the third consecutive year that such crimes increased. (Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/hate-crimes-rose-17-percent-last-year-according-to-new-fbi-data/2018/11/13/e0dcf13e-e754-11e8-b8dc-66cca409c180_story.html

Edited by sgamer82 on Nov 15th 2018 at 5:50:26 AM

raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#262035: Nov 15th 2018 at 3:40:49 PM

@ Alley Oop

All I'm saying is, if you take the voice away from the rural side of your country without proper methods, you can end up with inner terrorism in the worst of cases.

Edited by raziel365 on Nov 15th 2018 at 3:41:07 AM

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#262036: Nov 15th 2018 at 3:42:09 PM

I don't think it's right to say the country should be ignored but that doesn't mean giving them disproportionate power is actually better.

raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#262037: Nov 15th 2018 at 3:47:01 PM

[up]

Mind you, I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just pointing out that you have to do take that power with a lot of care to prevent any collateral problem.

Edited by raziel365 on Nov 15th 2018 at 3:47:42 AM

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#262038: Nov 15th 2018 at 3:50:54 PM

Palm Beach County missed the deadline for recounting votes in the state's Senate, governor's and agriculture-commissioner races. Counting machines overheated and stopped working at least twice this week. Florida will now manually recount the results in the U.S. Senate race, where about 12,600 votes separated Democratic incumbent Bill Nelson from Republican Rick Scott, the state's governor.
So, is this good or bad?

Trump nominated a handbag designer to be the next ambassador to South Africa. Lana Marks is a member of Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort. Marks has no prior diplomatic experience.
Now I'm morbidly curious about whether there's an even more unqualified pick that Trump has ever nominated in the past. Not saying that he can't top it later, mind you.

A 10-year-old Muslim girl found notes in her elementary school cubby that said "You're a terrorist" and "I will kill you."
... The motherfucking bastard/bitch who did this had better be found and publicly humiliated in the most severe way possible ASAP. Then s/he could be sent to receive whatever legal punishment this crime deserves.

Edited by MarqFJA on Nov 15th 2018 at 2:51:42 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#262039: Nov 15th 2018 at 3:51:43 PM

The problem is that you are going to make a lot of states disenfranchised with the presidential race due to population alone. A candidate that manages to swing California, Texas, Florida and New York to its side could ignore the remaining states without harming his or her campaign.

No they couldn’t, combined the four states represent around 33% of the US population (actully a lower percentage of the voting population due to Calaforia and Texas having high percentage of non-citizen residents who are part of the population but unable to vote).

Sure the electoral college shifts the ballence more in favour of states with less population (though not by a ton they represent between one third and one fifth of electoral college votes), but I fail to see why a less populous state person should have more voting power than a person who lives in a more populous state.

People in less populous states are not better or more important than people in more populous states, which is what the electoral college legally declares.

All I'm saying is, if you take the voice away from the rural side of your country

Nobody is taking their voice away, a person is not deprived of their voice by being made to speak at the same level as others.

Edit: Just ran the numbers and working from the states with the least electoral college votes to the most, it’s possible to win the electoral college by winning states that make up 46% of the US population, so once one accounts for needing to win each state by only a single vote it’s possibel to win the electoral college with only the votes of 23% of the US population, that’s much more of a problem then being able to win by getting everyone in the 10 most popular states to vote for you (they combined make up over 50% of the US population).

Edited by Silasw on Nov 15th 2018 at 12:09:37 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#262040: Nov 15th 2018 at 4:09:31 PM

[up]

The crux of the issue is that the removal of the Electoral Collegue -which I support, by the way, please don't think otherwise- must be done carefully to avoid or mitigate the backlash that will come from the least populated areas of the USA.

I agree on your observation that nobody will take away the voices of the rural side, but those voices will be drowned out by the urban side of the USA due to its sheer numbers.

Edited by raziel365 on Nov 15th 2018 at 4:11:35 AM

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#262041: Nov 15th 2018 at 4:10:51 PM

Harris is someone whose had a long career in law enforcement, on the prosecution side. A lot of criminal justice and sex worker advocates are skittish of her for that reason. She’s no Jeff Sessions, obviously, but she’s not Michelle Alexander either.

This. I see nothing wrong with her history but at the same time, I totally understand why people would be uncomfortable about it.

Though thinking about it, I like Gillibrand and she used to be a Conservative Dem so that would probably raise some eyebrows too if/when she runs. Which probably explains why I'm tolerant of Harris' past, I wouldn't want to be a hypocrite tongue

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#262042: Nov 15th 2018 at 4:11:21 PM

I agree on your observation that nobody will take away the voices of the rural side, but those voices will be drowned out by the urban side of the USA due to its sheer numbers.

And that’s a good thing.

Until we start actully exploiting and abusing people based on their location we don’t have a problem, a minority should have less of a voice than the majority, they should be drowned out, that’s how democracy works.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#262043: Nov 15th 2018 at 4:19:49 PM

The electoral college also stymies voter turnout; it's real shitty that millions of votes basically don't matter if the other candidate receives only slightly more votes.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#262044: Nov 15th 2018 at 4:30:17 PM

Yeah right now there’s no reason for a democrat to appeal to rural voters in California or Kansas, or even urban voters in Kansas; likewise there’s no reason for a Republican to appeal to urban voters in California or Kansas, or even rural voters in California.

When every vote counts equally it makes much more sense for democrats to appeal to rural voters everywhere and urban voters in republican states, and it makes sense for republicans to appeal to urban voters everywhere and rural voters in democratic states.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#262045: Nov 15th 2018 at 4:40:28 PM

That's why electoral reform has bipartisan support (amongst voters) because people can clearly see the justice of it and how it ultimately benefits everyone.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#262046: Nov 15th 2018 at 4:43:37 PM

And thinking practically, electoral reform being a thing would probably make "the Republican Party moderates itself, or dies" happen much faster.

Edited by LSBK on Nov 15th 2018 at 6:44:20 AM

Friendperson Since: May, 2018
#262047: Nov 15th 2018 at 5:50:45 PM

The main argument I hear against abolishing the electoral college boils down to "but how would republicans win elections?"

RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#262048: Nov 15th 2018 at 5:57:36 PM

And of course, the common rebuttal would be "Maybe they shouldn't."

Edited by RainingMetal on Nov 15th 2018 at 8:57:45 AM

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#262049: Nov 15th 2018 at 5:58:17 PM

Maybe they should try doing things that would get people to vote for them under the new system.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#262050: Nov 15th 2018 at 6:09:54 PM

Can't they just cheat like they always do?

i'm tired, my friend

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