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Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#261626: Nov 13th 2018 at 12:21:56 PM

> Tankies? That's a term I haven't heard before. Enlighten me on them.

apologists for the Soviet Union basically

Edited by Ultimatum on Nov 13th 2018 at 12:24:52 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#261627: Nov 13th 2018 at 12:24:42 PM

Oh, and regarding "Antifa", this is complicated to. Antifa is first and foremost Anti-Fascist, and that is not a bad position. I also wouldn't say that every Antifa member who is ready to push back physically against the violence of right wingers is wrong to do so, at least not in the US, where you can't trust that the police will keep the peace during demonstrations. Thus said there is also a group of people who label themselves "Antifa" which is not really about violence in defence, but seeks out the violence and unrest, sometimes to a degree that this trumps their political leaning. And they are a problem.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#261628: Nov 13th 2018 at 12:29:08 PM

Just remember that Antifa, as an Organization, is descended of what was basically the Communist Party's equivalent of the SA. I don't have issues with being Anti-Fascist, but there are a lot of instances where violence is considered the first response and that is something I find worrying.

"You can reply to this Message!"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#261629: Nov 13th 2018 at 12:31:06 PM

Really my opinion on the leftists that spend most of their time criticizing Democrats is pretty poor.

It's always struck me that they're far more interested in inflating their egos or earning 'good leftie" points than actually sitting down and making serious legislative progress.

Oh really when?
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#261630: Nov 13th 2018 at 12:32:34 PM

Basically, if you want to influence the party, then come to the table and negotiate. You probably won't get all your policies, but the Overton window doesn't shift overnight.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#261631: Nov 13th 2018 at 12:33:13 PM

There is nothing wrong with being far left in viewpoint. I personally stop well short of that, but the hallmark I find important is a willingness to consider a reasonable compromise.

If you let perfect be the enemy of good, then you tend to be more problem than solution.

Edit: or to put it another way...

The only way to get somewhere is to take a first step. If you don't want to this because this first step is not the destination you want, even if it's in the right direction, then you'll never get there.

Edited by 3of4 on Nov 13th 2018 at 9:36:21 PM

"You can reply to this Message!"
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#261632: Nov 13th 2018 at 12:34:51 PM

I've been here a month, maybe two, and already M84's signature of Disgusted but not Surprised is becoming my new tagline...

You are not the first, nor will you be the last.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#261633: Nov 13th 2018 at 12:36:24 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] That is certainly true for Germany. Anti Fa in the US is a little bit more complicated as far as I can tell. It is certainly not the left-wing equivalent to Neonazis, though.

Edited by Swanpride on Nov 13th 2018 at 12:36:36 PM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#261634: Nov 13th 2018 at 12:44:32 PM

Remember that online a number of the “socialists” you encounter criticising the Democrats are actully Russian intelligence officers, otherwise yeah you’re dealing with tankies largely.

Generally tankies are younge and white (also often men) and have just enough education to understand that they’ve been lied to about socialism but not enough to understand anything beyond that, so they just assume that everything they were told is a lie. You’ll often find them amongst students still studying, as they’re half-way though learning, I dealt with a number at university (from people apologising for Assad to people thinking that the US invaded Afghanistan for oil).

It’s entierly possible to be further left than the mainstream and still work within the system, look at Corbyn in the UK, as much as he’s split with tradditonal party leadership over issues he never quit the party and neither did his supporters, that’s how we got him elected leader.

On antifa you’ve got two internal groups, the people who are there to oppose fascists and the people who are there because they enjoy a fight. The later will also turn up at Anonymous protests, in the UK we call them the Black Block (due to them dress in all black), the two factions often intermingle and exchange members depending on things, it’s a very blurry line.

Edited by Silasw on Nov 13th 2018 at 8:46:46 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#261635: Nov 13th 2018 at 12:45:47 PM

https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2018/11/13/day-663/

Day 663: Grandstanding.

1/ CNN sued Trump and several White House aides asking the court to restore Jim Acosta's access to the White House. Trump suspended Acosta's press pass last week after a confrontation during a press conference. The suit alleges that Acosta's and CNN's First and Fifth Amendment rights are being violated by the White House's ban. "This is not a step we have taken lightly. But the White House action is unprecedented," CNN president Jeff Zucker said. Sanders responded by saying that CNN is "grandstanding" by suing. She added that the administration will "vigorously defend" itself. (CNN / Washignton Post / New York Times)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/13/media/cnn-sues-trump/index.html

The White House changed its justification for revoking Acosta's press pass. Acosta was initially accused of putting his hands on an intern, but now Sarah Huckabee Sanders suggests that the decision to revoke Acosta's access was because he refused to yield the microphone. (Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/11/13/white-house-is-changing-its-tune-why-it-yanked-jim-acostas-press-pass/

2/ Maryland asked a federal judge to declare Rod Rosenstein the acting attorney general instead of Matthew Whitaker, arguing that the selection of Jeff Sessions' former chief of staff violated federal law and exceeded the appointment authority outlined in the Constitution. Trump installed Whitaker as acting attorney general last week after ordering Sessions to resign from the post. (NBC News / Reuters)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-whitaker/maryland-files-legal-challenge-to-acting-u-s-attorney-general-appointment-idUSKCN1NI28R

Whitaker will consult with Justice Department ethics officials about possible recusal from overseeing Mueller's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. Whitaker has faced pressure from Democrats to step aside from overseeing the special counsel investigation, due to critical comments he made about the investigation before joining the Justice Department last year. (CBS News)

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/matt-whitaker-to-consult-with-justice-dept-about-possible-recusal-from-russia-probe/

3/ Trump is considering replacing John Kelly and Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen. Kelly has had repeated disputes with Melania Trump over staffing issues and travel requests, and clashed with national security adviser John Bolton and his deputy, Mira Ricardel, deputy national security adviser. Nick Ayers, currently Mike Pence's chief of staff, is among those being considered for the job. Trump has told advisers that he wants to replace Nielsen, who is a close ally of Kelly. Forcing Nielsen out could result in Kelly quitting. (New York Times / Washington Post / NBC News / Wall Street Journal / Bloomberg)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/after-clashes-first-lady-others-kelly-may-soon-exit-white-n935686

👋 Who The Fuck Has Left The Trump Administration

https://talk.whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/t/who-the-fuck-has-left-the-trump-administration/908

4/ A Roger Stone associate expects to be indicted by Robert Mueller soon. Jerome Corsi is one of more than a dozen people associated with Roger Stone who have been questioned by Mueller's investigators. Corsi said he doesn't know what he'll be charged with other than the special counsel indicating that he will be charged in the coming days. Corsi has been cooperating with the Mueller investigation since receiving a subpoena in late August. (Associated Press / ABC News / Bloomberg / Wall Street Journal)

https://apnews.com/a598bf57c77a4bd69dc101b0f96cf248

Notables.

A federal judge delayed certification of Georgia's election results, ordering the state to first review all provisional ballots. Unofficial returns show that Brian Kemp, the Republican nominee in the governor's race, holds a lead of about 58,000 votes. He can afford to lose only 21,000 votes before facing a runoff election against the Democratic candidate, Stacey Abrams. About 21,190 provisional ballots were cast in Georgia. (New York Times / NBC News)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/judge-orders-georgia-protect-provisional-ballots-abrams-kemp-race-n935561

Kyrsten Sinema defeated her Republican opponent in the race for a Senate seat in Arizona, giving Democrats their first elected senator in Arizona in 30 years. Sinema, a Democrat, will replace Republican Sen. Jeff Flake and become the first woman to represent Arizona in the Senate. (Axios / USA Today / The Guardian / New York Times / NBC News)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/democrat-kyrsten-sinema-wins-arizona-senate-race-after-nail-biter-n935206

Trump mocked the French for needing the U.S. to rescue them from the Germans in both world wars. The tweet comes after Trump joined world leaders commemorating the 100th anniversary of the end of World War I where French President Emmanuel Macron publicly criticized Trump's idea of "nationalism." (Bloomberg)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-13/trump-renews-attack-on-macron-as-bromance-turns-sours

Trump blamed the Secret Service for his canceled visit to a World War I cemetery in France, claiming that he suggested driving after it was deemed unsafe to take a helicopter. "By the way," Trump tweeted, "when the helicopter couldn't fly to the first cemetery in France because of almost zero visibility, I suggested driving. Secret Service said NO." (ABC News / USA Today)

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-trump-blames-secret-service-canceled-visit-wwi/story?id=59160398

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#261636: Nov 13th 2018 at 12:50:39 PM

In general I'm pretty cynical of people saying "both sides are the same"-especially when they really mean "neither side is extreme enough for me", which is what a lot of far-leftists do.

Admittedly I'm somewhat prone to bothsiderism as well, but in my defense it's for the opposite reasons (I wish there was a party left of the current GOP but right of the DNC) and I have very different opinions on both (I disagree with the DNC politically. With the GOP I disagree with certain policies, but I view those as symptoms of a deeper problem. Namely, butthurt whiners started running the show)

Edited by Protagonist506 on Nov 13th 2018 at 12:50:48 PM

Leviticus 19:34
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#261637: Nov 13th 2018 at 12:56:16 PM

I posted this several pages ago, but no one noticed it, so I’m reposting as it’s relevant.

So, I’m sure y’all will be shocked, but, going off the official police report, it looks like Tucker Carlson is full of s*** and the supposed anti-fa “attack” on his mansion was... really tame.

Journalists right now are really bad about believing white supremacist journalists based on their word alone. Multiple journalists issued mea culpas for the Carlson reporting. A lot of people in the replies tore the guy apart, justifiably in my opinion.

The media is also... really bad about making false equivalencies between anti-fa and white supremacists (compare the many NY Times soft focus profiles of Nazis in the last couple years versus handwringing over the “incivility” of anti-fa yelling at politicians in restaurants).

There’s no anti-fa murders, bombings, or attempted terror attacks on record that I know of. Versus, you know, the far-right pipe bombs, synagogue mass shooting, and Kentucky murder of two black elders just in the last couple of weeks.

Edited by wisewillow on Nov 13th 2018 at 4:01:09 AM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#261638: Nov 13th 2018 at 1:02:23 PM

Basically, even if you don't like antifa, they are not anywhere near as dangerous as the far-right terrorists, especially when you consider the fact that people have long made excuses for and tried to humanize people like school shooters under a misguided pretense, and in the process, done a disservice to people suffering from stuff like mental illness.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Nov 13th 2018 at 5:03:07 AM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#261639: Nov 13th 2018 at 1:10:08 PM

My European coloured impression is that present day far leftism is usally limitef to haranguing and property damage while murder and violence, serious physical assault nowadays are exclusively the province of the far right. I am not convinced that this is different in the US.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#261640: Nov 13th 2018 at 1:13:14 PM

You can be critical of littering and still aggressively oppose murder tongue

I may be wary of Antifa (and I freely admit, that my experiences with the European Breed may predispose me to it) but I'd still rather prefer them before the fuckwards from the other end.

"You can reply to this Message!"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#261641: Nov 13th 2018 at 1:24:07 PM

Oh, one should always keep an eye on left-wing extremism, before they go full RAF. But they are the less pressing problem currently. Right wing extremism is the main issue we have to deal with.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#261642: Nov 13th 2018 at 1:33:58 PM

What does the Royal Air Force have to do with the left? [lol]

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#261643: Nov 13th 2018 at 1:39:31 PM

Rote Armee Fraktion aka the Baader Meinhoff Group.

"You can reply to this Message!"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#261644: Nov 13th 2018 at 1:43:07 PM

[up][up] Sorry, forget to add the "not the British RAF" part.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction

That RAF. Which is btw most likely still active, just not as high profile as it used to be.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#261645: Nov 13th 2018 at 1:44:48 PM

Nowadays they are just criminals with delusions of grandeur...

"You can reply to this Message!"
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#261646: Nov 13th 2018 at 1:50:43 PM

The media is also... really bad about making false equivalencies between anti-fa and white supremacists (compare the many NY Times soft focus profiles of Nazis in the last couple years versus handwringing over the “incivility” of anti-fa yelling at politicians in restaurants).

There’s no anti-fa murders, bombings, or attempted terror attacks on record that I know of. Versus, you know, the far-right pipe bombs, synagogue mass shooting, and Kentucky murder of two black elders just in the last couple of weeks.

Well said, personally when people try to equivocate both sides I more or less just point out what you've said here.

Antifa engages in vandalism and assault while the alt-right engages in murder and wants to create a white ethnostate, to compare them is at best ignorance at worst grotesque privilege. The latter is far more harmful at its best then for the former is at its worst.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#261647: Nov 13th 2018 at 2:17:22 PM

It's a bit like comparing a stunted gem squash with a gonzo-sized pumpkin. They're in the same broad wheelhouse of "being a squash", for sure. And, you'd really rather not have either one of them thrown at your head by catapult.

But, one of them is clearly the bigger problem when it comes hurtling towards you.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Nov 13th 2018 at 10:37:08 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#261648: Nov 13th 2018 at 2:29:01 PM

Is Antifa even a thing anymore? I only ever hear about them when the Right is trying to use them as a bogeyman to distract from radical right-wing terrorism. Sometimes by claiming the radical right-wing terrorism in question was actually Antifa.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#261649: Nov 13th 2018 at 2:39:11 PM

I usually hear of them in the context of a counter-protest to whatever it is the nazis are marching for. And yeah, there's often vandalism and fighting involved. But also stories like how that one time they shielded a priest and his community doing a counter-protest of their own from alt-reich violence.

It's a mixed bag, but infinitely better than what they are fighting.

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#261650: Nov 13th 2018 at 2:39:32 PM

[up][up]The Black Bloc do exist. But, they're not nearly as active as fascists would like to believe.

Nor are they as numerous as fascists.

People who oppose fascists are quite common, however. They just don't generally go beyond civil disobedience.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Nov 13th 2018 at 10:41:13 AM


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