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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#261226: Nov 9th 2018 at 6:18:40 AM

[up] Except the federal background check system is full of holes, and again the regulations on the nature of gun ownership and type of guns that can be owned are a total mess.

They should have sent a poet.
Friendperson Since: May, 2018
#261227: Nov 9th 2018 at 6:25:33 AM

[up] That's... exactly what I'm arguing. Did you read the post?

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#261228: Nov 9th 2018 at 6:28:46 AM

On the subject, Marsha Blackburn was asked about the CA shooting the other day and what did she do? Immediately launch into a second amendment defense and give a meaningless "thoughts and prayers". Ugh. Nothing will ever change.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#261229: Nov 9th 2018 at 6:40:58 AM

"If you own a gun, own somewhere to keep a gun other than your table and keep it there"?

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#261230: Nov 9th 2018 at 6:53:40 AM

[up][up][up] Yes, you were arguing that the existing rules would be enough if they were actually used the way they should. And we are trying to explain that no, depending on the state they are not enough.

Here are the areas which need to get addressed regarding gun control:

1. For starters, the rules need to be more or less universal. As Chicago shows, it is pretty useless if you have stricter rules if the areas surrounding you don't.

2. Every single purchase needs to get registered. There can't be any gun show loophole or similar nonsense.

3. Also, there has to be a waiting period of one week. Some Staates already have this and it has done wonders for the suicide numbers.

4. Certain groups - meaning criminals and mental instable people - have to be excluded from legal gun-ownership.

5. There needs to be some sort of gun licence - meaning that you are only allowed to purchase a gun if you have made a test showing that you can actually use it.

6. And there need to be rules for storage - and punishments if an owner ignores them. Guns should NOT be anywhere near children.

And this is just the basics. There also have to be consideration which kind of guns should be open for purchase and which one should be limited to the military and the police, the permits to carry them need to get sorted out, you can even have different gun licenses for different kind of guns.

Though the US issue doesn't end with gun laws, either. You need to change the whole narrative around guns.

Edited by Swanpride on Nov 9th 2018 at 6:55:30 AM

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#261231: Nov 9th 2018 at 6:55:59 AM

[up]x4 My apologies, I thought you were saying the current checks were adequate.

[up] Restricting by gun type is pretty much useless, there’s no point. We just need the stronger permitting and the other stuff you outlined.

They should have sent a poet.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#261232: Nov 9th 2018 at 6:58:44 AM

[up] Well, I don't think that rapid-fire guns should be available to civilians. Nobody needs a gun which was designed for a war zone.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#261233: Nov 9th 2018 at 6:59:21 AM

How is restricting gun type pointless?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#261234: Nov 9th 2018 at 7:02:36 AM

[up][up] All guns are designed for war zones, and the vast majority of gun crime involves just a few shots being fired. In fact, the vast majority of gun crime is committed with handguns which are never something people propose for type regulations. I’ll also point out that there’s no evidence that fire rate makes crimes worse.

All regulating by gun type does is lead to the current situation, because gun manufacturers can build around regulations faster than we can write them. That’s how you get things like stabilizing braces and AO Ws.

For those who aren’t aware, a stabilizing brace is a piece of bullshit hardware that allows people to own a short barreled rifle without doing any work. In the US you have to pay $200 and go through a heightened background check to own a short barreled rifle, so gun companies designed these: [1]

Despite looking and functioning exactly like a stock, due to a clever bit of legalese (theyre “designed” to be braced against the arm) they’re not legally considered stocks. Because of this, that rifle is considered a pistol, and can actually be bought more easily than a rifle with a regular stock in a lot of jurisdictions.

Edited by archonspeaks on Nov 9th 2018 at 7:08:38 AM

They should have sent a poet.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#261235: Nov 9th 2018 at 7:09:27 AM

Not all guns were designed for war zones, how on Earth are you making that claim?

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#261236: Nov 9th 2018 at 7:10:50 AM

[up][up] You can easily counter that by wording the law in a way that either every new model needs to get approved and categorized or by having specific rules for what the weapon can do and not what they look like (meaning they are allowed to have x-many rounds and fire x-fast, period, any technology which enhance the performance of a weapon is automatically forbidden).

See, done.

Also, there are guns for hunting, for sport shooters, for police officers...so no, not every gun is designed for a war zone.

Edited by Swanpride on Nov 9th 2018 at 7:11:41 AM

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#261237: Nov 9th 2018 at 7:15:02 AM

[up] There’s no law you could possibly write that the gun industry couldn’t circumvent. That’s just the nature of the beast. Any attempt to regulate by type or feature will necessarily get sucked into the weeds.

We can beat that whole thing by just regulating the act of owning a firearm from the very beginning, basically the stuff you proposed above.

And where do you think those hunting and police guns came from?

Edited by archonspeaks on Nov 9th 2018 at 7:17:22 AM

They should have sent a poet.
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#261238: Nov 9th 2018 at 7:26:00 AM

My main issue with Sanders is that he often seems to care more about "winning" on his own terms and centering things around his person rather than being productive and supportive to try and sow the seeds for eventual progressive reforms.
Also a large part of my criticism of him.
I mean I'll admit to voting for him in the primaries
Same. Should he run again, he won't get my primary vote, but if he still somehow clinches the nomination, well, the alternative is Trump ...
Also Clinton was to white women what Clarence Thomas is to black people. I don't even know how to parse that.
I literally don't even know what that's supposed to mean.
538?
How have you been on this thread and not be familiar with Five Thirty Eight ?? There's been links posted to that site weekly, sometimes daily.
As a Canadian looking at the US from the outside, I remember when Columbine was a huge deal. It dominated the airwaves when it happened and everyone was talking about it. These days, I see a headline about mass shootings and my first thought is that it's just the US doing US things. Sorry, if it comes off as being insensitive
It's sounds too truthful to be all that insensitive.
Guns should NOT be anywhere near children.
There are actually good safety reasons to allow children to be trained, under responsible supervision, on how to use guns. Scouting allows firearms and archery, on a safe and supervised range, so that the kids can learn proper safety and handling of firearms. That's good, if you want to reduce accidental shootings.

... Do we have a gun control thread? Because if so we should probably move this discussion there.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#261239: Nov 9th 2018 at 7:33:26 AM

[up] The biggest problem with gun violence is clearly not accidental shootings and you know it. This as I know someone who died due to exactly that. Kids have absolutely no reason to be handling guns at age 10 unless they live in the middle of the woods and have to deal with wild animals or something.

Life is unfair...
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#261240: Nov 9th 2018 at 7:34:08 AM

Say, what do you guys mean when you say that an election candidate is ahead of another by X points?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#261241: Nov 9th 2018 at 7:35:33 AM

We don't have a gun control thread but we should probably create one. Not reuse the gun thread, though - my impression is that the tropers who frequent that one are not generally interested in gun control debates.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#261243: Nov 9th 2018 at 7:37:52 AM

[up][up] We’ve taken the gun control debate there before, it’s not a bad place for it. The debate just tends to get mixed in with more generic gun-related news. A more specific gun control thread would definitely be a good idea.

Edited by archonspeaks on Nov 9th 2018 at 7:38:12 AM

They should have sent a poet.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#261244: Nov 9th 2018 at 7:40:20 AM

Please take a look at this thread listing mass shooting incidents resulting in 10 or more dead. In particular:

or even:

1984 .

1986

.or even:

1984 .

1986

. . .

1990

1991

. .


assault weapon ban becomes law

. . . .

1999 .

. . .


assault weapon ban revoked

2005 . 2007

. 2009, 2009 . . 2012, 2012 2013 .

2015 2016 2017, 2017 2018, 2018, 2018, 2018

Edited by wisewillow on Nov 9th 2018 at 10:46:09 AM

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#261245: Nov 9th 2018 at 7:43:13 AM

[up] Claims that the AWB expiring drove up mass shootings are based on heavily flawed data. We have no evidence the ban affected mass shootings in any way, since most mass shootings are committed with handguns which are not covered under the ban.

Assault weapons are almost never used in crime. Their regulation is a red herring, it gives conservatives something they can easily fight democrats over without talking about the actual issues.

They should have sent a poet.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#261246: Nov 9th 2018 at 7:46:50 AM

We have no evidence the ban affected mass shootings in any way

We also have no evidence it didn't, because it was made illegal to do any scientific investigation on mass shootings or the like.

SeptimusHeap MOD from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#261247: Nov 9th 2018 at 7:49:10 AM

Centralize gun control discussions here, please.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#261248: Nov 9th 2018 at 8:26:39 AM

Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg is 'up and working' after a fall that broke her ribs

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/11/09/supreme-court-justice-ruth-bader-ginsburg-is-up-and-working-after-a-fall-that-broke-her-ribs.html

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg is already up and working in her hospital room, a day after breaking three ribs in a fall, her nephew said late on Thursday at the Hollywood premiere of a film about her life.

Ginsburg, a ground-breaking liberal jurist who at 85 is the oldest U.S. Supreme Court justice, was hospitalized on Thursday after falling at her office at the court, a court spokeswoman said.

"The last I heard she was up and working, of course, because what else would she be doing, and cracking jokes," her nephew Daniel Stiepleman said at the premiere of the film "On the Basis of Sex", about a gender-based discrimination case Ginsburg tried as a young lawyer in 1972.

"I can't promise they were good jokes but they were jokes," said Stiepleman, who wrote the script for the film with input from the justice herself.

Edited by sgamer82 on Nov 9th 2018 at 9:27:46 AM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#261249: Nov 9th 2018 at 8:27:34 AM

Seems like Florida is heading for a recount-and-recrimination, complete with the usual suspects whining about voter fraud. Maaaybe Georgia will see a runoff as well.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Nov 9th 2018 at 5:28:20 PM

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Friendperson Since: May, 2018
#261250: Nov 9th 2018 at 8:29:06 AM

Hang on, why do we have a "General" politics thread if we can't talk about general U.S political things? Why have it if discussion should be moved to threads specifically about that topic?

I think a "general" thread should mean we can discuss anything related to politics. It's inclusive, not exclusive.

Edited by Friendperson on Nov 9th 2018 at 8:30:25 AM


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