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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#259851: Nov 4th 2018 at 8:23:22 PM

I'm glad my home state is experiencing almost 3 times more young voters, maybe Arizona can finally inch over the precipice of being a red state into a blue one. Also, holy crap some of those numbers are crazy! This midterm very well might have the highest turnout of any midterm ever.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#259852: Nov 4th 2018 at 8:25:40 PM

The question is, how many of those voters are blue?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#259853: Nov 4th 2018 at 8:29:11 PM

Given that they're young, polls would indicate the majority.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#259854: Nov 4th 2018 at 8:30:06 PM

Also increased turnouts tend to not favor incumbents, iirc.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#259855: Nov 4th 2018 at 8:34:40 PM

I feel like this is the kind of data that it's a bad idea to extrapolate from. Like, it's probably not a bad sign for the Democrats, but I think that's the most you can reasonably say.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#259856: Nov 4th 2018 at 8:37:25 PM

Yeah, I'm not banking too much on these numbers either way. At most I consider it interesting and not a bad sign by any means.

It ain't over till it's over.

Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#259857: Nov 4th 2018 at 8:38:26 PM

It's for observers who might not be as well informed as those of us here, and so make decisions based on whether it seems like someone is obviously cheating or not.

No one looks like they're cheating. Because the rules they're breaking are social convention, not actual rules.

The Republicans are frequently horribly hypocritical about when they employ or decry certain breaches of these social conventions, but the only people who remotely care about this are their opponents, because Republicans base their selective insistence on proper behaviour on whether an issue matters to their base, while Democrats insist on proper behaviour at all times even when it horribly screws their base.

Angry gets shit done.
singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#259858: Nov 4th 2018 at 8:48:52 PM

The only issue I have against playing dirty is that it just proves the current system is broken beyond repair.

Which it well may be, but you are not going to be able to rewrite the constitution to get a better system so we have to make do and mend with what we have.

Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#259859: Nov 4th 2018 at 8:56:31 PM

Eventually, I'm going to get sick of pointing out that none of this has anything to do with the system (which is indeed broken and does indeed need to be fixed) and everything to do with the social conventions that kept just how broken the system has always been obfuscated up to this point. Eventually, but not yet.

Angry gets shit done.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#259860: Nov 4th 2018 at 9:05:46 PM

I knew what you meant and agree. A lot of our democracy runs on the honor system/noblesse oblige.

Which does not work when one side completely refuses to reciprocate.

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#259861: Nov 4th 2018 at 9:09:28 PM

Noblesse oblige doesn't have anything to do with our system of politics, unless you're extrapolating it into a rule of being genteel in houses of politics.

It's been fun.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#259862: Nov 4th 2018 at 9:09:58 PM

I feel like this is the kind of data that it's a bad idea to extrapolate from. Like, it's probably not a bad sign for the Democrats, but I think that's the most you can reasonably say.

I don't really agree, is it a sign that the elections are as good as won? Certainly not, but at the same time it's really encouraging and if it bears out in election day it could mean extremely good things for Democratic odds.

So it's rather more than "probably not a bad sign".

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#259863: Nov 4th 2018 at 9:33:59 PM

Wow. That'll teach me for posting before watching the video. Basically shot down my opinion flat out on rules and the following thereof.

I'm sorry if you thought I wasn't addressing your point on social conventions. I guess I am conflating "the system" to include social conventions. They ultimately are the oil in the engine of democracy. The ideal engine is frictionless, and therefore would not need oil. As we step further and further away from ideal, the greater quantity of oil that is needed. The US democratic system is far from ideal - so it needs a ton of oil and funny enough removing it causes everything to grind to a halt.

But back to the video. He made some good points about why liberals are vulnerable to people playing the system. I just feel that he missed a fundamental point - namely that the Democrats are the party of the state.

There always has been a divide in US politics on those who want to grow the state and those that wish to shrink it. Right now it is Democrats on the grow it side. They don't defend the process just out of convenience: it is fundamental to the beliefs that the state can solve problems.

Which ultimately shows the biggest problem we have with Republicans and why it is impossible to work with them. For Republicans, government disfunction is a feature, not a bug. Plus those that get hurt by government disfunction are overwhelmingly Democratic supporters. Breaking the system in this context is to go full accelerationist - and I don't think any Democrat can support that.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#259864: Nov 4th 2018 at 9:35:13 PM

[up][up][up]Yes; I was using it in the context of our ruling elite and their supposed obligation to, y’know, act fairly and listen to their constituents and the nation.

[up] Republicans are happy to grow the state, if it means more military, more police, more ICE, etc. They oppose growing the state in order to enact social programs like, y’know, education, etc.

Edited by wisewillow on Nov 4th 2018 at 12:37:30 PM

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#259865: Nov 4th 2018 at 10:10:40 PM

[up]That's actually why I, as a Republican, hate using the term "small government". It's one of those terms that has too many strings attached to it.

Leviticus 19:34
Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#259866: Nov 4th 2018 at 10:54:01 PM

[up] Indeed. And it doesn't help that 'small government' in this context also frequently means 'small federal government' (Republicans in state governments never seem all that eager to trim the fat in government locally) and that this doesn't usually involve actually lowering federal taxes (for anyone but the richest people and corporations) by all that much, but instead re-allocating all that money currently going to federal social programs into grants to state governments for discretionary spending instead.

Edited by Robrecht on Nov 4th 2018 at 7:56:03 PM

Angry gets shit done.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#259867: Nov 4th 2018 at 11:02:51 PM

Famously, the Kentucky Republicans lower the school budget for their states by however much money the state lottery brings.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
PresidentStalkeyes Eats moldy bread and flies into windows from United Kingdom of England-land Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Eats moldy bread and flies into windows
#259868: Nov 5th 2018 at 2:54:08 AM

So since the midterms are tomorrow, I was just wondering what exact times the voting opening and closes, and when the results are in. I know here in the UK, whenever a vote of any kind is held, usually the ballots are open from 6 or 7 in the morning until 10 or 11 in the evening, which gives people as much time as possible to get in. Do they not do that in the US?

Edited by PresidentStalkeyes on Nov 5th 2018 at 10:54:50 AM

Those sell-by-dates won't stop me because I can't read!
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#259869: Nov 5th 2018 at 2:59:46 AM

7am to 7 pm local time. I'm pretty sure there are laws where if there are people in line to vote, that polling location must stay open until everyone has voted, but I'm not sure of the specifics.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#259870: Nov 5th 2018 at 3:02:36 AM

Indiana is 6am to 6pm local.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#259871: Nov 5th 2018 at 3:11:16 AM

I wanna say 8am to 8pm in Maryland, but I don't really remember.

i'm tired, my friend
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#259872: Nov 5th 2018 at 3:16:50 AM

7am to 8pm per the Maryland board of elections.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#259873: Nov 5th 2018 at 3:20:45 AM

Forget making elections a national holiday, polling stations should stay open longer.

Friendperson Since: May, 2018
#259874: Nov 5th 2018 at 4:53:54 AM

Voting should be the easiest and most convenient part of a person's civic duty in a republic.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#259875: Nov 5th 2018 at 4:57:12 AM

Yeah one of many things that could be packaged into a new Voting Rights Act is a requirements that polling stations stay open from 6am to 11pm, combined with a requirement that a polling station be provided for every X number of people and every X square miles.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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