Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
We can either hurt them back or sit here and do nothing while their attacks get worse and worse.
Those are our only two options.
This. Russia tested the water in 2016 and that worked out phenomenally well for them with next to no blowback. Why wouldn't they do it again when doing it gains them everything and costs them nothing?
Ignoring them and hoping they go away isn't going to work. The only way Russia stops is if we make them stop.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.One that makes them think they've made a hostage in Awakening the Sleeping Giant. Though I think the concern is that such a level of response would provoke disaster.
Edited by sgamer82 on Nov 3rd 2018 at 7:45:40 AM
One that indicates that the US is willing to escalate.
The Russian government does what it does because it knows it will face no consequences, it’s the same reason that it will assassinate people in the UK but not in France.
There are mild responses that can work, say the expulsion of all Russian diplomats and the sanctioning of key players in Russian politics, there are direct counter activities that are liable to scare them off (so blowing open a Russian natural gas line) and there are big but non-war escalations that would be a large move but not a declaration of war (dropping missiles on rebels in eastern Ukraine or having the CIA stuff a bunch of grenades though the letterbox At FSB HQ).
None of which would start a war.
Edited by Silasw on Nov 3rd 2018 at 1:48:07 PM
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranObama was pretty soft with his diplomatic expulsions, he only expelled the diplomats proven to be engaged in espionage, I’m taking about throwing out every single person at the Russian embassy.
Also one possible escalation is expanding the 1917 trading with the enemy act to cover Russia, it currently only covers Cuba (with North Korea having been removed) and would also provide a solid argument for treason charges against anyone assisting Russian election interference.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranShut up and take my money vote.
I just discovered the Secret Service codenames for Obama and Trump in their respective terms as POTUS... and they're rather fitting (though you have to take Obama's in a loose sense). Didn't know they allowed a sense of humor into their official business.
Obama: Renegadenote . Trump: Mogul.
Edited by MarqFJA on Nov 3rd 2018 at 6:35:51 PM
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.Here's the thing,you do not want a war with Russia,you do not want war (if you can help it,sometimes it's unavoidable) with any country period due to the effect it has on the world market's and America's reputation.This means any action against Russia must be weighed carefully,do enough damage and they will turn hostile because that's what they want,Russia continually antagonises America,now meddling America's elections is the last proverbial straw that broke the camel's back and Russia knows this,they've always wanted a war against America,ever since the cold war where it looked like the slightest mistake could lead to a nuclear war
have a listen and have a link to my discord server![]()
So you’re saying we should just let Russia do whatever they want with total impunity?
I’ve said it before, but Russia’s only advantage is that they’ll do what we won’t. It’s sort of like the situation with Trump; we had all sorts of rules we thought governed the presidency but it turned out a bad actor could just choose not to follow them.
Russia is that bad actor. They violate arms control treaties once thought set in stone without compunction, they gleefully disregard international norms, and they’ve now proven more than willing to directly attack the US.
At some point we have to respond.
Edited by archonspeaks on Nov 3rd 2018 at 8:50:15 AM
They should have sent a poet.Ok, I'm sorry but I have to say it.
This is dumb.
Russia does not want war, we don't want war.
They use cyberwarfare (for the lack of a better term) to attack us and they support proxies to attack our world-order, an actual full-on war would be insane and would actively go against both sides' interests.
When we're talking about making Russia pay for their attacks we're talking about using the same non-kinetic means that they've been using on us, we will not be sending a bomber to Moscow.
I shouldn't have to say this but I guess I have to.
Cyber-attacks, if they escalate then we can match them and hit far harder then they can.
Russia launched those attacks because they know that our feebleness would stop us from responding, fears of escalation merely play into their hands.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Nov 3rd 2018 at 11:54:57 AM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang![]()
I mentioned it above. Offensive cyberwarfare against Russian government facilities and infrastructure, kinetic warfare against their proxies, and hopefully a continuing pipeline of arms to Ukraine.
International norms and law only goes as far as our willingness to enforce it. Letting Russia run all over the place is not only damaging to us but sets a dangerous precedent overall.
They should have sent a poet.
Frankly, so what? The paralyzing fear of escalation, like Fourthspartan pointed out, is exactly why they’ve been able to get away with so much.
The alternative is letting them continue to undermine the liberal world order, which is unacceptable. They need to be brought back in line.
They should have sent a poet.![]()
,
Well said.
The risk of escalation is well worth it, the alternative is doing nothing and allowing Russia to replace the Liberal world order with a reactionary nationalist-international which perpetually squabbles and does nothing to address climate change or any other major issue that afflicts humanity.
That must not be permitted to occur.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Nov 3rd 2018 at 12:10:26 PM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang

I know we like to shit on libertarians, but I can honestly say I've never had a negative experience with one. I've lived in a few rural areas, so I've run into a few, and they always seem like good people.