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Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#258401: Oct 22nd 2018 at 6:12:20 PM

[up]I'd say they are closer to Neutral Evil, combined with a (un)healthy dose of Chaotic Stupid.

Trump's approval rating at 47% doesn't sound right. As others have said, its from a less than reliable firm. Plus, Trump has actually had a pretty decent October; no major (domestic) new scandals, and Mueller has been quiet.

And its interesting to note that any modest gains in Trump's approval do not appear to be helping his party in the Congressional race.

Edited by Rationalinsanity on Oct 22nd 2018 at 10:12:35 AM

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#258402: Oct 22nd 2018 at 6:13:59 PM

[up]Again, most Trump voters don't care about Congress. They care about Trump. And if they can't vote for Trump, they ain't gonna vote.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#258403: Oct 22nd 2018 at 6:21:38 PM

And they are so apathetic that even Cheeto himself can't order them to do otherwise.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#258404: Oct 22nd 2018 at 6:28:46 PM

That is the oddity of it all. The Republicans are every bit as racist and hateful as Der Cheeto.

But they can't stand them.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
PresidentStalkeyes Eats moldy bread and flies into windows from United Kingdom of England-land Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Eats moldy bread and flies into windows
#258405: Oct 22nd 2018 at 6:37:54 PM

Perhaps they're assuming that regardless of who controls Congress, they're just a suggestion box anyway and Trump will ignore them and do whatever he likes?

Those sell-by-dates won't stop me because I can't read!
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#258406: Oct 22nd 2018 at 6:38:56 PM

No, Trump was elected in part on the fact he hated and belittled his fellow Republicans.

Which is true.

His support of the GOP agenda is...fickle at best when it's not his idea. We also know it's returned as they ignore his orders and agenda at will.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 22nd 2018 at 6:39:13 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#258407: Oct 22nd 2018 at 6:40:10 PM

[up][up]The thing is, he can't just ignore them. Not completely. Rare as it's been, there have been times that the GOP has blocked or opposed Trump's actions, and Trump has had no choice but to abide by them. Even if he tries, Congress (or even just the House) is a hell of a drug.

Edited by kkhohoho on Oct 22nd 2018 at 8:40:28 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#258408: Oct 22nd 2018 at 6:42:16 PM

Trump is the reason that the Healthcare repeal failed.

Albeit barely.

He and the Republicans couldn't agree on what would replace it (the GOP wanting nothing to) and Trump wanting a big gaudy monument to his ego.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
PresidentStalkeyes Eats moldy bread and flies into windows from United Kingdom of England-land Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Eats moldy bread and flies into windows
#258409: Oct 22nd 2018 at 6:44:14 PM

[up][up]I know that, but do his fanbase know that? I was under the impression they see him as less of a president and more of an omnipotent God-Emperor. :V

Edited by PresidentStalkeyes on Oct 22nd 2018 at 2:44:54 PM

Those sell-by-dates won't stop me because I can't read!
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#258410: Oct 22nd 2018 at 6:45:59 PM

The thing is, he can't just ignore them. Not completely. Rare as it's been, there have been times that the GOP has blocked or opposed Trump's actions, and Trump has had no choice but to abide by them. Even if he tries, Congress (or even just the House) is a hell of a drug.

And if the Democratic Party takes control then he won't be able to ignore them at all, because his domestic agenda will be dead and his foreign agenda will be limited by whatever means that Congress can draw up.

The only reason Trump thinks that he can just ignore Congress is because he's a moron who has been treated with kids gloves by the Republicans, that will stop the moment that Democrats take control (if they do).

(I know this doesn't contradict your point, I'm adding to it)

I know that, but do his fanbase know that? I was under the impression they see him as less of a president and more of an omnipotent God-Emperor. :V

The smarter ones probably do but the average are just moronic authoritarians and thus probably don't know.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 22nd 2018 at 9:47:26 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#258411: Oct 23rd 2018 at 1:35:58 AM

And because he convinced himself that Obama had unlimited unchecked powers so he must have too. Remember he complained that the Constitution includes too many checks and balances on what he can do.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#258412: Oct 23rd 2018 at 2:07:58 AM

Trump's approval rating at 47% doesn't sound right. As others have said, its from a less than reliable firm.

Remember that his approval rating is determined by polling his base of supporters. They don't even bother to poll his opponents, because the results would automatically be negative.

So, if less than half of his own base approve of him, what does that tell you?

Edited by pwiegle on Oct 23rd 2018 at 5:09:05 AM

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
PresidentStalkeyes Eats moldy bread and flies into windows from United Kingdom of England-land Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Eats moldy bread and flies into windows
#258413: Oct 23rd 2018 at 3:56:07 AM

[up]Wait, really? They only poll Republicans? I had assumed they poll everybody. Does this apply to all his approval ratings, and for previous presidents as well?

Those sell-by-dates won't stop me because I can't read!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#258414: Oct 23rd 2018 at 4:00:41 AM

[up] Yep, and you have to consider that each time a bunch of republicans decide that they have enough and denounce the party, they no longer turn up in the baseline. So when they say "after x event the approval rating has risen again" it can mean that the base thought that those actions were great, but it can ALSO mean that in reaction to the event, more people who were previously in the disapproval crowd have stopped to consider themselves as republicans, hence the percentage of the Republicans who approve as risen.

That's statistics for you.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#258415: Oct 23rd 2018 at 4:05:29 AM

I can’t comment on that specific poll but I know that Trump’s 538 aproval numbers aren’t just tracking his aproval amongst Republicans, they’re his numbers amongst everyone, they have him at 43% aproved and 52% disapprove right now, which is relatively high aproval for him.

In aproval he’s between where Bill Clinton and Reagan were at the same time in their first terms, however in net aproval he’s doing worse than Regan was.

Trump’s aproval does seem to have a solid floor, but so does his disapproval, while Trump is able to bring Republicans back when they get upset with him he’s incapable of avoiding pissing off Democrats.

Low aproval at this point isn’t the weird thing about Trump’s popularity, it’s the high level of disapproval that stands out.

But yes, if one is just looking at Trump’s aproval amongst Republicans it’s onyl as high as it is because people who disapprove of him tend to quit the party.

Edited by Silasw on Oct 23rd 2018 at 11:07:33 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#258416: Oct 23rd 2018 at 6:15:45 AM

How do we combat the oft-repeated criticism that Democrats want to raise taxes? And I mean in a concise, easy-to-understand, sound byte way.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#258417: Oct 23rd 2018 at 6:19:52 AM

Well, Democrats do want to raise taxes. On the wealthy, who can afford it and are not paying their share.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#258418: Oct 23rd 2018 at 6:19:57 AM

You really can't. At least not in a soundbyte.

Disgusted, but not surprised
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#258419: Oct 23rd 2018 at 6:20:45 AM

Honestly, it's difficult to, because to do anything remotely useful, the Democrats would have to raise taxes somewhere.

I'd say just go the class warfare route and portray the rich as having untapped reserves of wealth that they're hoarding from the common man and could be converted into tax dollars, because it's the only narrative that's wholly true.

My preferable strategy is indirect — a full propaganda push showing what taxes do — so that the people start clamoring for a tax hike.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#258420: Oct 23rd 2018 at 6:22:28 AM

I think propaganda should be avoided and demonising the wealthy is straight out of Stalin's book

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#258421: Oct 23rd 2018 at 6:24:04 AM

It requires salesmanship and marketing essentially — like with any product or service you gotta convince people the benefits outweigh the cost.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#258422: Oct 23rd 2018 at 6:26:47 AM

"But I'm losing money,I hate losing money to Government taxes!"

"Do you want your libraries to close?"

"No"

"Do you want potholes to be filed?

"Yes!"

"That's what your tax dollars go towards!"

That's how I'd sell it anyway

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Friendperson Since: May, 2018
#258423: Oct 23rd 2018 at 6:37:39 AM

Once again, the problem is poverty: for a lot of people, that couple extra bucks from slashing a tax could be the difference between life and death. Of course, if we had better social welfare programs, (cough cough through taxes) this wouldn't be a problem.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#258424: Oct 23rd 2018 at 6:38:30 AM

You decouple taxes from government, people tend to see taxes as just going into some black hole.

So for a sound bite you want something like “making the richest pay middle America what middle America deserves”.

If you want to get technical and use specifics you can go with stuff like, “Amazon’s trucks use America’s roads every day to make money, it’s time they paid for the upkeep of the roads they profit from”.

You frame it not as the government taking money for itself, but middle America getting paid for the work it does for the richest.

[up] Thing is nobody on the Democrat side wants to raise taxes on the poor.

Edited by Silasw on Oct 23rd 2018 at 1:40:11 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#258425: Oct 23rd 2018 at 6:40:11 AM

The problem is that when government is chugging along fine, no one really notices. It's in the background. That makes it easier for people to stop appreciating it.

Disgusted, but not surprised

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