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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#258326: Oct 21st 2018 at 9:12:21 PM

I disagree. What we need to do is convince them that we care. Many Republicans and Republican voters are under the impression that the Democrats are exactly the same as them, just as bigoted and doing just as evil things, but we hide our evil behind a veil of being the "nice guy" who "cares about helping people". Lindsey Graham's ranting at the Kavanaugh trial was because, in his eyes, we had broken the rules. He seriously thought that we were just trying to keep a Republican from getting on the Supreme Court, and we had crossed a line by going into personal attacks against Brett's character.

Republicans and FOX News are desperate to prove this theory by catching Democrats in the act of being just like them, of defending a sexual predator, or saying something horribly callous and racist and letting it slide. The way they win is if we take the low road with them. The way we win is by taking the high road until they can no longer convince people that we're on the low road.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Oct 21st 2018 at 9:13:24 AM

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#258327: Oct 21st 2018 at 9:17:59 PM

[up]That. The problem is not the tactics, for the most part-the simple truth is, the people who vote for the GOP would love nothing more than seeing Democrats wallowing in the same filth, because it validates their beliefs that the only difference between them all is the GOP 'tells the truth'. Those same voters are not going to suddenly switch their votes just because the Democrats are embracing the same tactics, or even sinking to spewing the same garbage as the GOP-they will take it as affirmation of their belief that they were 'right' all along and the Democrats are no different except for being liars, and continue voting for the GOP on that basis.

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#258328: Oct 21st 2018 at 9:22:52 PM

[up]Your wrong, they don't see it as "filth". Many of them see this as "the truth" and "the way it should be" simply because it was the way they were raised. Conservative values as defined by those people as a whole is something America would be better off without, but while they still exist, being a blustering idiot manchild is considered the same as "standing up for yourself" so if that is what we must do, then we have to do so. Many lives depend on it.

[up][up]More likely, they think he did, (after all they voted for rapist Trump) and just didn't care, cause "abortion and gay marriage are way worse then losing a couple of Hispanic kids or putting them in animal cages."

I'm a bit amazed at how the culture war, is really just a bunch of people who want the world to be better, (Democrats) vs. a bunch of people who just want life to be worse for everyone but the richer among themselves, (Republicans).

Edited by Wildcard on Oct 21st 2018 at 12:24:32 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#258329: Oct 21st 2018 at 9:27:17 PM

It's why one of the biggest pushes for Trump getting into office was that "he's honest", "he tells it like it is", and "he's not censored by political correctness".

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#258330: Oct 21st 2018 at 9:30:20 PM

[up]We can't win by taking the high road. We tried that in 2016 and thousands of people still go "you both sides brah!"

So no, it has been proven for two years now that it doesn't work. Maybe you can prove it wrong next month, but I really doubt it.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#258331: Oct 21st 2018 at 9:36:21 PM

We tried that in 2016 and only lost because of a technicality, cheating from outside interference, years of misinformation and propaganda, and the opponent hyper-focusing on one insignificant thing enough that it blocked almost everything else out.

We still won the people by over 3,000,000. It's not a failing strategy, we just need to learn from our mistakes (one major one was letting our opponents get away with their nonsense) and do better next time.

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#258332: Oct 21st 2018 at 9:41:30 PM

Those three factors you mentioned are still here now, and as long as the EC still exists and the Rethuglicans are in power always will. With gerrymandering, their fucking awful SC, and their jackbooted Alt-Right lovers it is gonna get even worse.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#258333: Oct 21st 2018 at 10:04:23 PM

So, vote Democrat and make an issue out of abolishing the EC. (Because seriously that's not going away unless we make it an issue.)

In any case, all of those only have limited effectiveness, otherwise they wouldn't be as desperate as they are to take people off the voter rolls. All signs this year point to the Democrats having the advantage and winning the House. Which is as good a start as is available to us at this point.

Voting in large enough numbers tends to dilute the effects of gerrymandering, so what we've got to do is continue efforts to get people both registered to vote and interested in voting. The more people vote, the more Democrats tend to win.

Sorry if this post seems slightly incoherent, it's late for me and I am poorly rested.

Steven (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#258334: Oct 21st 2018 at 10:39:16 PM

@wildcard

And if mudslinging like a Republic doesn't work, what then?

Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#258335: Oct 21st 2018 at 11:06:13 PM

Or, worse and possibly more likely going by skimmed discussion here, it backfires and only widens the divide between Right and Left?

FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#258336: Oct 22nd 2018 at 12:45:49 AM

Did anyone here mention how Trump just threatened over Twitter to "call up the US MILITARY" to "stop" the Honduran migrant caravan if they attempted to enter the US?

The Pentagon's likely going to play their tried and true "delay by deliberate inefficiency" gambit. tongue

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#258337: Oct 22nd 2018 at 2:19:17 AM

Has anyone actually explained Posse Comitatus to him yet?

"Yup. That tasted purple."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#258338: Oct 22nd 2018 at 2:24:10 AM

Trump reacts the way most of his supporters would when someone tries to teach him something that might conflict with his worldview and inflated ego: with hostility.

So if someone did try to explain it to him, it probably didn't stick.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#258339: Oct 22nd 2018 at 2:37:39 AM

"call up the US MILITARY"

They'll end up sending one guy from the national guard

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#258340: Oct 22nd 2018 at 2:58:55 AM

[up]

Dave didn't sign up for this.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#258341: Oct 22nd 2018 at 3:30:25 AM

"Aright Dave listen up,you have a very imporant job to do,from the president no less.."

-Hours later-

"DAVE YOU LET THEM IN?

"I thought we welcomed people to our country instead of turning them away?

"knew I should have got the marines"

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#258342: Oct 22nd 2018 at 5:02:31 AM

[up]x6 Yup. Was mentioned about a week ago. In case you're wondering, Mexico basically caved in and stopped the caravan themselves.

Edited by kkhohoho on Oct 22nd 2018 at 7:03:16 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#258343: Oct 22nd 2018 at 5:08:56 AM

I keep telling people that the high ground isn't effective because acting like the adult in the room is a losing strategy when the opponent treats the entire thing like 4chan.

You have to smack them back if no other reason than they are behaving like monsters and people need to know they are not acceptable.

And by what I mean about this, tell people that I do believe have some decency that the other side is a bunch of monsters and WHY.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 22nd 2018 at 5:10:12 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#258344: Oct 22nd 2018 at 5:14:53 AM

To quote our old attorney General, "When they go low, we kick them."

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#258345: Oct 22nd 2018 at 5:23:49 AM

We’ve had this discussion before and if I remember right people meant different things by “going low” and “playing dirty”.

It’s not “going low” to refuse to compromise with Republicans, to reject all Republican nominees due to them being unfit, to remove unfit members of the judiciary from the bench, to ensure that minorities can vote or to block republican attempts to hurt people.

Dems didn’t go high in 2016, they went stupid by Obama not publicly revealing Russia meddling.

Obama caving to Mc Connell’s threats wasn’t him refusing to play dirty, it was him yet again compromising with the Republicans.

We can refuse to compromise with Republicans without compromising our morals, the two actions actually go hand in hand.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#258346: Oct 22nd 2018 at 5:26:05 AM

Perhaps I mean "Angry" and "Rude" because we need more of that.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#258347: Oct 22nd 2018 at 5:30:56 AM

Yeah democrats need to be more angry and impolite, but that’s not playing dirty, it’s playing honest.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#258348: Oct 22nd 2018 at 5:36:13 AM

Sometimes being the adult in the room is refusing to compromise and doing whatever possible to dismantle the opposition.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#258349: Oct 22nd 2018 at 7:26:15 AM

What about the facade of playing dirty but playing by the rules in reality? Appearing like a Democrat Trump to appeal to the casual audience while actually understanding the impact of executive orders, civil rights, foreign relations, and other basic Genre Savvy?

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
Steven (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#258350: Oct 22nd 2018 at 7:48:08 AM

Acting like Trump but being smart behind the scenes is physically impossible.

Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.

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