TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#258226: Oct 20th 2018 at 12:59:13 PM

How about introducing government-operated insurance agencies? Pseudo-corporate entities that can get the capital needed to buy out most competitors?

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#258227: Oct 20th 2018 at 1:01:07 PM

Isn't something like that what the Public Option was meant to be?

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#258228: Oct 20th 2018 at 1:09:31 PM

The goal here is to have the pseudo-corporation become a monopoly, or at least become big enough that its competitors have no choice but to match it in quality and coverage as well as price to stay competitive. I'm not sure if the public option is made with that aim in mind.

A side effect would be that excess profit (that isn't spent on buying out competitors or maintenance on the company) could be put in the state's budget as opposed to a bigwig's mattress in the meantime.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Oct 20th 2018 at 1:15:06 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#258229: Oct 20th 2018 at 1:10:53 PM

No to any insurance agencies,Government run or not,they always get too big chasing profits and the result is another group lobbying against Universal Healthcare

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#258230: Oct 20th 2018 at 1:14:02 PM

You can't just flip a switch and cancel the concept of insurance.

Creating a government controlled insurance company and slowing choking them all out is probably the best way to go around it.

Oh really when?
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#258231: Oct 20th 2018 at 1:17:08 PM

The existing insurance companies would eat the Government run one for breakfast,they're predators in a very competitive food chain,they would not let it survive if it they deemed it a threat to their money

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Friendperson Since: May, 2018
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#258233: Oct 20th 2018 at 1:23:09 PM

The only way they could stop it is if they got enough senators in their pocket.

Private corporations simply can't compete with the government if they put their minds to it because the government doesn't need profit to continue.

Oh really when?
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#258234: Oct 20th 2018 at 1:23:58 PM

That's the kind of logic which basically amounts to, "I bet those [insert rich minorities] are living off our hard earned white labor! We should seize it all for ourselves." Is there any reason why the insurance companies should pay for health care for the public versus the government?

The government DOES have an obligation to support its citizens. It also can do a better job because if you force the cost on insurance companies, you are just privatizing health care indirectly.

Firstly the minority metaphor is greatly offensive, please don't compare me to racists who want to steal from well-off minorities. Not to mention comparing insurance companies to well-off minorities is itself ridiculous and offensive.

Secondly, I'm not suggesting that they should fund the public's healthcare. I'm saying that their actions to block single payer or other forms of healthcare reform are immoral and worthy of condemnation.

The existing insurance companies would eat the Government run one for breakfast,they're predators in a very competitive food chain,they would not let it survive if it they deemed it a threat to their money

This is assuming that "create a government-run one" would involve competing with them. I would prefer nationalizing the industry under the state.

Furthermore, even if competition were permitted it would be a mistake to assume that being predators in a competitive food chain somehow outweighs the kind of resources that the government can bring to bear (hint: it can't).

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#258235: Oct 20th 2018 at 1:30:39 PM

Would such a nationalization campaign pass legal muster?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#258236: Oct 20th 2018 at 1:32:56 PM

Well given my father worked his way from poverty via insurance, I have nothing good to say about your attempts to vilify his industry because you don't think the government should pay for healthcare.

Insurance cannot be a substitute for state-run healthcare.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 20th 2018 at 1:34:36 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#258237: Oct 20th 2018 at 1:39:43 PM

No one is saying your father is the villain,we're saying the insurance companies are the problem due to how their lobby powers effect politics and ensure universal healthcare struggles for air

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#258238: Oct 20th 2018 at 1:46:34 PM

And I disagree.

That lets off the medical industry from the hook and the refusal by the government to step up.

But hey, YMMV.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 20th 2018 at 1:46:51 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#258239: Oct 20th 2018 at 2:04:17 PM

Insurance companies are by far the largest hurdle that needs to be cleared to establish universal healthcare in the US. Due to the way those companies are set up, to compete in the market they kind of have to screw people. It’s in their best interest to not insure those who are actually most at risk.

Nationalizing the insurance industry, or bringing it wholly under government control is probably the best bet.

They should have sent a poet.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#258240: Oct 20th 2018 at 2:07:15 PM

That said, once we get universal single-payer, the insurance companies will be its most fervent defenders. Guess why?

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#258241: Oct 20th 2018 at 2:10:05 PM

Cos they're make money off malpractises!

They always find a way

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#258242: Oct 20th 2018 at 2:10:31 PM

I don't even know what that's supposed to mean

Oh really when?
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#258243: Oct 20th 2018 at 2:11:31 PM

...Actually, it's because they'll make money off of selling supplemental insurance once "the basics" are covered by the government.

Edited by Ramidel on Oct 20th 2018 at 1:11:48 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#258244: Oct 20th 2018 at 2:11:47 PM

self thumped

Edited by Ultimatum on Oct 20th 2018 at 2:14:32 AM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#258245: Oct 20th 2018 at 2:12:19 PM

[up][up][up][up] Attorneys make money off malpractice suits, not the insurance companies.

Edited by archonspeaks on Oct 20th 2018 at 2:12:37 AM

They should have sent a poet.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#258246: Oct 20th 2018 at 2:12:54 PM

[up][up]Dude just stop

Oh really when?
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#258247: Oct 20th 2018 at 2:13:08 PM

Right,getting mixed up,whoops

edit:I stopped

Edited by Ultimatum on Oct 20th 2018 at 2:13:29 AM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#258248: Oct 20th 2018 at 4:42:41 PM

The first step to eliminating the insurance companies' stranglehold on medicine is not to deal with the insurance companies. It's to regulate the outrageous costs of healthcare.

First, we issue regulations to bring the cost of healthcare down to reasonable levels. Literally the only reason why getting a check-up costs $10,000 is because of the deals brokered between insurance companies and hospitals.

If we smack down those costs, we can then create a non-profit public option health insurance plan that charges substantially less than the competition for the same level of care. This forces the insurance companies to adapt or die. They can either bring down their prices or we'll compete them out of business.

The insurance companies aren't the problem. They're vultures, picking at the corpses left behind by the problem. The problem is outrageous healthcare costs that make it next to impossible to afford care unless you pay for an expensive insurance plan.

P.S. Vote Democrat if you ever want to see something like this happen.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 20th 2018 at 5:47:20 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ludlow Since: Apr, 2013
#258249: Oct 20th 2018 at 5:27:25 PM

To be fair, part of the reason healthcare prices are so high is because health insurance companies regularly try to avoid paying costs to hospitals or at least lower them to lowest price possible through negotiation. Thus, hospitals began to charge outrageous prices for even the most inexpensive of treatments because the higher they set the prices the more likely they're going to get a decent pay out from insurance companies after negotiation.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#258250: Oct 20th 2018 at 5:33:49 PM

One of the reasons those prices so high is that Valeant (which owns a shit ton of medicine as a whole) jacks up prices on customers they know have insurance. Going from 2 dollars a pill to 200 dollars a pill so that they can't force insurance companies to pay the entire amount without the customers being aware of just how much they're paying.

Often critical lifesaving drugs they can't live without.

The companies are then forced to shift the cost around to customers who aren't threatened by it. Hospitals do the same, charging obscene amounts of money and forcing insurance companies to bargain or drop customers.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

Total posts: 417,856
Top