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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Imca (Veteran)
#258051: Oct 18th 2018 at 8:16:48 PM

[up][up] No, it is not uniformly blue, reminder that of the past 24 years, we have only had a democratic mayor for 4 for instance.

New York DOES have a large red base as well, pretending it doesn't is dangerous.

Edit: At least your now anoladging that, but before you weren't, and thats the problem here, people like to pretend red just cant exist in the city, when it quite verifibly does.

Edited by Imca on Oct 18th 2018 at 8:18:11 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#258052: Oct 18th 2018 at 8:17:56 PM

[up]Good thing I'm not doing that, then. Discussing this with you seems to be pointless, as you've already made up your mind about what you're arguing against, instead of paying attention to my actual point was and is.

Edited by LSBK on Oct 18th 2018 at 10:19:43 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#258053: Oct 18th 2018 at 8:18:13 PM

It's one of those things which complicates politics. People think of red and blue states but the difference in votes is, if not 50-50, then often only 60-40.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#258054: Oct 18th 2018 at 8:20:23 PM

Ah, so he basically stole a rather-dangerously-significantly-sized portion of their general voter base by shifting their loyalties from the Republican cause to his own person... and then is proving to be an utter failure at motivating them to making sure that the Democrats they're all united in hating would not steal any Congressional seats for themselves (something that he ought to know is in his self-interest).

The Tea Party always hated the Republicans so this is no surprise.

They always felt they weren't extreme enough.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#258055: Oct 18th 2018 at 8:21:34 PM

Nuance is lost on a lot of people. If a hypothetical city is, say, 80% Democrat and 20% Republican, the Democrats will most likely control politics, but your actual chances of meeting a Republican aren't exactly small.

Not to mention that people often vote differently depending on whether it's a local, state, or national election.

That's the point I was trying to make, and why I said Imca's personal anecdotes don't actually prove anything. Or at least, they don't prove anything I think anyone in this thread wouldn't already be aware of.

Edited by LSBK on Oct 18th 2018 at 10:24:16 AM

AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#258056: Oct 18th 2018 at 8:22:45 PM

As someone who lived in the Empire state for a time, I can assure you I am aware of the Red streak large parts of the state hold. Hell, I lived in one such area. I still maintain my position.

Edited by AzurePaladin on Oct 18th 2018 at 11:23:15 AM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
vicarious vicarious from NC, USA Since: Feb, 2013
vicarious
#258057: Oct 18th 2018 at 8:27:23 PM

Done my early voting for North Carolina. Was interesting to see there were some state constitutional amendments on the table. And a lot of judges.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#258058: Oct 18th 2018 at 8:29:08 PM

I'm really glad that Prop 9 was taken off the ballot when I sent my vote for the California midterms.

Disgusted, but not surprised
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#258059: Oct 18th 2018 at 8:31:54 PM

Remind me, was Prop 9 the one to split the state in 3? Because that was the most blatantly cynical power grab I've seen like that in...well, not that long actually.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#258060: Oct 18th 2018 at 8:38:09 PM

Republicans have done their best to keep Washington DC and Puerto Rico from becoming states.

Can't imagine why.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#258061: Oct 18th 2018 at 8:43:37 PM

[up][up]Yes, yes it was.

Disgusted, but not surprised
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#258062: Oct 18th 2018 at 8:50:05 PM

Well, glad that was off the ballot then. This is, what, take two of the whole "lets split California! Totally not an excuse to break Democratic power" thing? What's the bet that he tries a third time?

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#258063: Oct 18th 2018 at 8:54:20 PM

I'm not taking that bet. Of course he's going to try again. That it got this far this time will only embolden him.

Disgusted, but not surprised
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#258064: Oct 18th 2018 at 9:59:07 PM

Trump was more involved in stopping a long-term plan to move the FBI to the D.C. than previously known. Prior to the election, Trump wanted to move the FBI headquarters moving out of Washington, D.C. so he could acquire the land and redevelop the property. After being sworn in, he became ineligible to obtain the property and moved to block competitors from acquiring the land. The Trump International Hotel is located a block away from the current FBI headquarters.

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/18/658509261/trump-intervened-in-fbi-hq-project-to-protect-his-hotel-democrats-allege

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#258065: Oct 19th 2018 at 5:29:16 AM

Woops, I got the population of the New York metro and New York state confused, my bad on that one.

And claimed that areas where Democrats get roughly 3-4 times as many votes as Republicans are 50/50 red blue.

  • 2016 elections: Brooklyn: 79.7% Clinton, 19.7% Trump. Queens: 75.5% Clinton, 22.1% Trump
  • 2012 elections: Brooklyn: 585,491 votes for Obama, 113,72 Trump. Queens: 461,545 to 108,881
  • 2008 elections: Brooklyn: 79.4% Obama, 20% McCain. Queens: 75.1% Obama, 24.3% McCain
  • 2004 elections: Brooklyn: 72% Kerry, 23% Bush. Queens: 70% Kerry, 26% Bush.
  • 2000 elections: Brooklyn: 76.5% Gore, 14.64% Bush. Queens: 72% Gore, 20.4% Bush.

I mean, there are plenty of red strongholds in New York State. There's a reason why there's an old NYC joke that the further North you go the more likely it is that you'll feel like you wound up in the South, but Brooklyn and Queens aren't it. Nor are they "50/50".

Edited by TheWanderer on Oct 19th 2018 at 8:30:52 AM

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#258066: Oct 19th 2018 at 5:30:51 AM

Yeah, rural North NY is where the red shows up.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#258068: Oct 19th 2018 at 6:48:58 AM

Trump's base is what we called the Tea Party in 2010. Basically, the Koch Brothers donated massive amounts of funding to the (initially) grassroots uprising against traditional conservatives and created the Far Right libertarian socially extreme vaguely white supremecist (back then) movement that hit the Republicans like a ton of bricks.

I will make one correction, the Tea Party was never libertarian. I don't mean this in a "No True Libertarian" sense but rather their only opposition to government power and taxation was that it could theoretically help minorities, which Trump and their support of ultranationalist authoritarianism has made that absolutely clear.

I don't say this to defend libertarians, they're awful but I feel safe assuming that many if not most of them actually care about their awfulness. With the Tea Party, it was just a cover for the virulent White Supremacy.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#258069: Oct 19th 2018 at 7:06:43 AM

[up]That, and blatant Evangelical Fundamentalism.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#258070: Oct 19th 2018 at 7:09:24 AM

Most of Trump's voters don't give a fuck about Congress. They only care about Trump.
Trump has turned a large chunk of the right-wing voter base into an almost literal Cult of Personality. They're there for him and nothing else.
Instead of dumping the poor people somewhere else, what if we helped them stop being poor?
Come on, Silas, you have to propose solutions that will actually work! We can't just hand out money to the shiftless poor, they'll just spend it all on drugs!
how did the GOP manage to gain enough seats in the few years leading up to the 2016 election to secure majority control over both chambers?
The short version: 2010 is when the racists really started to vote, and with Obama winning in 2008 the Democrats got complacent. GOP won in a lot of rural states, taking over state-level legislatures and governors, and promptly started in with voter suppression, so that now in 2018 they can just chop 50k minority voters off the list and nobody can stop them.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#258071: Oct 19th 2018 at 7:10:28 AM

There's a lot of fundamentalists in Trump's group. However, the block of them are less than you might think. It's to say, a group of fundamentalists are fanatically supportive of Trump.

Which if you're skeptical that "not all Fundamentalists" support Trump, I point out at least one segment of Fundamentalists aren't 100% Trump.

[cough] Black Fundamentalists

I say this as a person who isn't at all fond of them and is a recovering one.

There's kind of a Venn Diagram of various groups that are white supremecist that covers various groups but includes a large chunk of Fundamentalists, Atheists, Southerners, Westerners, Upper Class Whites, Lower Class Whites, Middle Class Whites, and more.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 19th 2018 at 7:12:54 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#258072: Oct 19th 2018 at 7:12:39 AM

The short version: 2010 is when the racists really started to vote, and with Obama winning in 2008 the Democrats got complacent. GOP won in a lot of rural states, taking over state-level legislatures and governors, and promptly started in with voter suppression, so that now in 2018 they can just chop 50k minority voters off the list and nobody can stop them.

The really impactful thing was that post-2010 midterms the state positions were responsible for creating the maps, hence why the Republicans have had such a dominance of the House and State positions.

So it's rather apropos that we're talking about it now in that 2018 state positions are going to be responsible for redistricting again, which makes this midterm hugely important and possibly very impactful for us.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#258073: Oct 19th 2018 at 7:13:36 AM

I wasn't saying that Trump's base is uniform in that regard, I was saying that the Tea Party was essentially a Evangelical and Social Conservative movement, along with the racism.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#258074: Oct 19th 2018 at 7:16:06 AM

I'm not trying to contradict you, just noting that it's an interesting note how the Fundamentalist Block which has been more or less lock step since the 1970s has been split over all of this.

It's more or less only interesting to those monitoring the situation among Christian organizations like myself.

I expect to see some churches break apart over it.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 19th 2018 at 7:16:38 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#258075: Oct 19th 2018 at 7:16:26 AM

That, and blatant Evangelical Fundamentalism.

White Evangelicalism is White Supremacy, with some Male Supremacy mixed in.

I'm not really a fan of Christianity but I feel fairly comfortable in saying that White Evangelicals don't have much connection to it.

(I'm not contradicting you per-se, just pointing it out)

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 19th 2018 at 10:17:36 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang

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