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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#257651: Oct 14th 2018 at 12:36:05 PM

Obama needed around six years to somewhat restore the image of the US after Bush. Whoever will follow Trump will most like not being able to do it, even if he gets two terms. It take at least a decade for the US to get back where it was in terms of soft power (and that is if the next presidents actually put in some effort to win it back). And that is not a small matter.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#257652: Oct 14th 2018 at 12:42:26 PM

I doubt the message is the problem, it's probably how you say it.

To be frank I've seen some rather aggressive posts from you, considering the subject matter it's understandable but we all have to control ourselves and make sure that we behave in a productive manner (as difficult as that can be, these people are rather vile).

Except that I don't remember ever bringing up "justice over peace" here. All the times that I did bring it up were in the Palestine-Israel thread, and that's where a lot of people have strongly disagreed with me over this, saying that reconciliation a la post-war Germany is the only practical course of action regarding the many transgressions committed by both sides of the conflict.

The case presented by the USA's example in how they concluded the American Civil War with peace at the expense of justice, on the other hand, clearly shows why such an approach is a Very Bad idea that reflects a dangerous combination of short-sightedness and over-optimism.

Edited by MarqFJA on Oct 14th 2018 at 10:44:13 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#257653: Oct 14th 2018 at 1:33:35 PM

[up][up]I don't think any POTUS could redeem the US' image in the eyes of the world, that's on the electorate. They need to elect two, three or maybe even more reasonable Presidents in a row for that to happen.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#257654: Oct 14th 2018 at 1:36:52 PM

I don't think any POTUS could redeem the US' image in the eyes of the world, that's on the electorate. They need to elect two, three or maybe even more reasonable Presidents in a row for that to happen.

I would argue it's both, we need Good presidents to salvage our reputation both from their actions and from the sign that the US electorate is sane again. Still no idea how that can reliably happen with the Republicans off the deep end.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#257655: Oct 14th 2018 at 1:38:08 PM

[up][up][up] Not to say things couldn’t have been done better, but I don’t think a punitive approach would have really helped after the Civil War. At some point punishing your enemies should be secondary to stabilizing your country.

Edited by archonspeaks on Oct 14th 2018 at 1:38:22 AM

They should have sent a poet.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#257656: Oct 14th 2018 at 1:41:36 PM

Not to say things couldn’t have been done better, but I don’t think a punitive approach would have really helped after the Civil War. At some point punishing your enemies should be secondary to stabilizing your country.

It depends what you mean by 'punitive', executing their leaders and thoroughly removing the influence of the Slavocrats from Southern society a-la denazification would've been far better than what we actually did in reconstruction. Probably not possible due to the North's selfish war fatigue and softness but it would've been nice all the same.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#257657: Oct 14th 2018 at 2:02:18 PM

[up]Like you said it depend of how you do it, do it badly and you will create resentment....or not do it at all will be worse which is what it end happeing.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#257658: Oct 14th 2018 at 2:17:38 PM

Back up to 80% on 538 for the House. At least for now, that advantage the Republicans had during the Kavaunghing is completely gone.

Edited by kkhohoho on Oct 14th 2018 at 4:32:12 AM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#257659: Oct 14th 2018 at 2:29:10 PM

That's for the House. Senate still looks bad. And the Senate is much more important.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#257660: Oct 14th 2018 at 2:35:38 PM

The worst-case scenario, for me, is that we get a Democrat into office in 2020 who spends most of their term desperately and futilely trying to fix all the damage Trump did, and come 2024, it turns out America as a whole learned nothing and we just elect Trump again, or someone similar.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Oct 14th 2018 at 2:36:23 AM

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#257661: Oct 14th 2018 at 2:39:38 PM

[up][up]I know that. But it's not like we have much chance of winning it. The best we can do there is protect what seats we have.

Also, House now up to 81%.

Edited by kkhohoho on Oct 14th 2018 at 4:40:59 AM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#257662: Oct 14th 2018 at 2:39:42 PM

[up][up][up]That's true, but the Senate map always looked terrible anyways. There isn't much we can do about it either way, it's the consequence for electing Trump in the first place.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Oct 14th 2018 at 5:40:41 AM

TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#257663: Oct 14th 2018 at 3:12:22 PM

Trump has referred to Mattis as a Democrat. Their already worsening relationship is going further down the drain.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#257664: Oct 14th 2018 at 3:15:55 PM

Wait...since when is being a Democrat an insult?

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#257665: Oct 14th 2018 at 3:17:00 PM

Among Republicans? I think since Clinton.

"You can reply to this Message!"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#257666: Oct 14th 2018 at 3:17:22 PM

It's always been an insult to conservatives.

Hell it's practically a four letter word down here. Same with liberal.

Oh really when?
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#257667: Oct 14th 2018 at 3:17:39 PM

[up][up][up]Since always, far as the current Republicans are concerned.

Not even joking, how many actions make sense only of their main motivation boils down to "DEMOCRATS BAD!"

Edited by sgamer82 on Oct 14th 2018 at 4:18:17 AM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#257668: Oct 14th 2018 at 3:19:33 PM

Wait...since when is being a Democrat an insult?

To Republicans? Probably since at least the time of Bill Clinton's presidency.

[nja]

Edited by Draghinazzo on Oct 14th 2018 at 6:20:00 AM

CookingCat Since: Jul, 2018
#257669: Oct 14th 2018 at 3:19:34 PM

[up]x5 Please tell me Mattis can just refuse to leave like Kelly did, because I'm starting to panic...

Edited by CookingCat on Oct 14th 2018 at 3:34:51 AM

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#257670: Oct 14th 2018 at 3:53:21 PM

At a North Carolina rally where he announced Mr. Mattis as his pick for defense secretary, the president described the general as the living embodiment of the Marine Corps motto, “semper fidelis,” or “always faithful.”

Maybe Trump didn't realize, that Semper Fidelis, meant towards the Corps and the Country, not him.

Inter arma enim silent leges
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#257671: Oct 14th 2018 at 3:55:37 PM

[up] I'm not sure he'd recognize the distinction.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#257672: Oct 14th 2018 at 4:34:51 PM

That's true, but the Senate map always looked terrible anyways. There isn't much we can do about it either way, it's the consequence for electing Trump in the first place.

Not to mention that while the Senate is important lets not ignore local seats, as the Republicans have shown local governments have massive amounts of practical power and thus if we do very well in the House then we'll probably do very well there too. And that is always important, especially considering that who will be responsible for redistricting will depend on the results of the midterm.

So to treat the Senate as the most important thing would be a grave error.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#257673: Oct 14th 2018 at 4:57:53 PM

Perhaps I am overly optimistic, but if the Democrats manage to get enough support, they may be able to cripple the GOP for practically forever - or at least the next 100 years.

I mean, the Dems seem to get more votes and that's even with all the voter suppression and gerrymandering.

If they are able to get strong enough to tip the balance in their favour and restore rights to those disenfranchised, then I think it would be really hard for the GOP to ever recover. They would bleed votes every election until they are only supported by the reddest parts of the USA.

Again, maybe overly optimistic, but I have faith in the youths that will grow into voters. I have hope that the magic of the Digital Age will free them from the lies of Murdoch and his peers. And If this happens you can finally win the Civil War.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#257674: Oct 14th 2018 at 5:06:12 PM

@Polar Phantom: Well, with crippling the GOP for a century, if the GOP gets crippled for just 50 years it likely would just cease to exist in general, perhaps being replaced by another party with similar values.

I don't think one should assume the GOP is going to fall apart, though. A very non-trivial chunk of the United States does support the GOP very enthusiastically. If even a quarter of your country has GOP-like values that creates considerable political demand for their desires to be met.

Leviticus 19:34
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#257675: Oct 14th 2018 at 5:12:28 PM

Oh, rest assured, I do not believe the GOP or its like will disappear anytime soon, but if all goes well, they will become almost toothless.

They'll struggle and make a few dents here and there, but their days of forcing their bile down the throat of the USA will be over.


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