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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

StarOutlaw Since: Nov, 2010
#257001: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:30:45 PM

Again, I'm really hesitant to assume that this is going to get Dems to the voting booths and repubs to stay home. If Republicans think that Democrats are going to retaliate, that means they might also try to counter that by voting as well.

I'm not trying to be cynical, but this kind of optimism can breed complacency. I'm not saying it won't happen, but we have to make it happen.

I know sometimes things have to get worse before they get better, but there is a point of no return. What I am afraid of is that with BK in, republicans will have almost free reign to rewrite the laws to their benefit and make themselves immune to accountability. Trump will have the power to end all investigations into crimes and corruption surrounding him, and will be able to pardon everyone, not to mention roe v wade being overturned. I'm just saying we shouldn't get overconfident, the dems must win the House and they need the support.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#257003: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:32:42 PM

[up][up]You know how the SC works, right? Trump can't just order the SC to do whatever he wants.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#257004: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:35:28 PM

Again, I'm really hesitant to assume that this is going to get Dems to the voting booths and repubs to stay home. If Republicans think that Democrats are going to retaliate, that means they might also try to counter that by voting as well.

May I ask why?

The Republicans have what they want thus there could be strong incentives for them to stay home. Especially considering that they're the incumbent party and thus most likely already have depressed turnout.

The Democrats are outraged at this travesty and guess what the very best motivator for voting is? Outrage. That's what drove Republicans to vote against Democrats due to the rise of Obama and the ACA, and what led to them seizing local governments and House positions across the country.

Furthermore, let's say both sides are motivated equally, guess who wins then? The Democrats, because we have the numbers and the popular support that when we vote we win. Thus from the perspective of the midterms, this has a high probability of hurting the Republicans and a low probability of helping them.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 6th 2018 at 5:37:21 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#257005: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:40:28 PM

From Robert Costa

Sen. Flake, heading into chamber, tells me the Senate has “hit bottom.”

I ask why so many lawmakers keep using that specific term.

He shrugs and grimaces. “Because it feels like we are at the bottom.”

Edited by megaeliz on Oct 6th 2018 at 5:43:20 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#257006: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:42:01 PM

Aww, so Flake feels that confirming a probable rapist over a stunted investigation might in-fact be a bad thing? He's the typical Never Trumper, occasionally making disapproving noise while not doing shit.

Both he and his party can fuck themselves.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#257007: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:48:16 PM

Rachel Maddows had a very interesting piece about the possible fall out. Let's just say that history has shown that actions like this result in a huge backlash.

You can expect that Women and Young people and non-white people/first generation immigrants will come out in droves in the next elections. Women because they have been activated by the open sexism against them, and by the metoo movement. Young people because they are tired of getting shot in their classrooms, and because they have been activated by the Parkland survivors. And the last group because Trump does his very best to curtail their rights. Can you for example imagine that any young Puerto Rican who moved to the mainland (let's not forget this little fact, while Puerto Rica is not a state, if the people living there move to the mainland they ARE able to vote and a lot of them did because the island doesn't offer them any job opportunities) would vote Republican?

Republicans on the other hand...the Trumpist just had their win, plus, it has shown that the popularity of Trump doesn't necessarily translate to whoever he endorses. And moderate Republicans might decide to not vote under the current circumstances.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#257008: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:49:50 PM

Quite, I would not be surprised if this results in boosted Democratic turnout and depressed Republican turnout.

Which could result in devastation come midterms.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#257009: Oct 6th 2018 at 3:21:12 PM

I'm not a guy who shits on optimism.

But I'm going to say this was a loss and I'm just going to hope the next fight will be a win.

Big or small.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#257010: Oct 6th 2018 at 3:26:07 PM

But I'm going to say this was a loss and I'm just going to hope the next fight will be a win.
That's not shitting on optimism. That's just stating a fact and what needs to be done to counteract it.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#257011: Oct 6th 2018 at 3:26:43 PM

Something else I thought about.

Kavanaugh thinks his troubles are over now that he's confirmed. They're just beginning. All eyes are going to be on every single move he makes on the Supreme Court. He was uncomfortable with all the attention he received during the last two months? He has no idea.

Edited by speedyboris on Oct 6th 2018 at 5:37:01 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#257012: Oct 6th 2018 at 3:28:42 PM

I'm not a guy who shits on optimism.

But I'm going to say this was a loss and I'm just going to hope the next fight will be a win.

Big or small.

Acknowledging the impact on turnout is not optimism, it's realism and rationality.

Also we're all aware it was a loss thanks, that contradicts absolutely nothing that has been said.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#257013: Oct 6th 2018 at 4:47:02 PM

[up][up]The Democrats have also indicated that, if they do well in the midterms and win the house, they'll be investigating Kavanaugh for perjury.

Here (article is dated 5th October):

House Democrats are not finished with Brett Kavanaugh

For the past week, House Democrats have been saying they’ll take over the investigation into Kavanaugh’s background if they win in the 2018 midterms. Five Democratic members of the House Judiciary Committee — including ranking member Rep. Jerry Nadler (D-NY) — have called for an investigation into the sexual assault allegations against Kavanaugh. (Kavanaugh has denied all the allegations made against him).

Nadler, who would become committee chairman if Democrats win back the House, made it clear he would like to do a thorough investigation into both the sexual assault and misconduct allegations brought by Christine Blasey Ford and other women, as well as claims that Kavanaugh perjured himself in sworn testimony in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

“If he is on the Supreme Court and the Senate hasn’t investigated, then the House will have to,” Nadler said Sunday on ABC News. “We would have to investigate any credible allegations certainly of perjury and other things that haven’t been properly looked at before.”

House Democrats investigating Kavanaugh would be the first step, but some Democrats, including retiring Rep. Luis Gutiérrez (D-IL) and Ted Lieu (D-CA), have already called for the House to initiate impeachment proceedings against Kavanaugh if they find he lied about sexually assaulting Ford.

But House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi has made it clear that she does not believe the House should go so far as impeaching a sitting Supreme Court justice, a similar line she’s deployed when asked about impeaching President Donald Trump.

“Let’s take it one day at a time. We are not about impeachment,” Pelosi said at the Atlantic Festival on Tuesday.

But the message is clear: Democrats are not finished with Brett Kavanaugh.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Oct 6th 2018 at 12:48:47 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#257014: Oct 6th 2018 at 5:15:48 PM

Hope I can tell every sane American "Better dead than red". But at this point, it would be redundant or useless, given that the line has been drawn in the sand and everyone has adamantly chosen a side at this point.

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#257015: Oct 6th 2018 at 5:19:56 PM

Fun filled fact but the "better dead than Red" line was originally reversed as it was an anti-nuclear slogan.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#257016: Oct 6th 2018 at 5:25:48 PM

[up][up][up] Democratic leadership once again refusing to do commit to anything that rocks the boat. Kavanaugh has done things that warrant at least a look into the possibility of impeachment at this point. Stand against him and show that the democrats aren't the party of Joe Manchins.

Edited by Grafite on Oct 6th 2018 at 1:28:14 PM

Life is unfair...
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#257017: Oct 6th 2018 at 5:30:11 PM

Democratic leadership once again refusing to do commit to anything that rocks the boat. Kavanaugh has done things that warrant at least a look into the possibility of impeachment at this point. Stand against him and show that the democrats aren't the party of Joe Manchins.

Are you kidding me? They're literally saying they aren't done with him, that's the exact opposite of refusing to rock the boat.

If you don't consider that standing against him then frankly you aren't going to consider anything standing against him.

Saying "we'll wait and see" on impeachment is just being smart, now they can appear moderate and then nail him to the wall when their investigations show that he committed perjury.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 6th 2018 at 8:33:36 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#257018: Oct 6th 2018 at 5:34:59 PM

I've been talking this over with a friend. I've been considering our political capital. I've been opposed to the idea of court-packing, but I do think there are grounds to put Merrick Garland specifically on the SC even if we have to make a new seat for him. There is a legitimate case to be made that he should rightly have already been there.

But I worry that too much SC shenanigans in a single election cycle will look to the voters like we're trying to steal the SC. Democrats are, after all, always held to a much higher standard than Republicans due to our much more fickle voterbase. We can't even sneeze without being accused of corruption.

So I asked my friend: if we only had the political capital for one, which would you want to see happen?

  1. Impeach Brett Kavanaugh.
  2. Add Merrick Garland to the SC.

She pointed out that it's not a choice. It's just first and second, because if we successfully impeach Kavanaugh, that opens up a seat. Then Garland can be sent to the SC without the optics of court-packing.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#257019: Oct 6th 2018 at 5:54:07 PM

But the time for olive branches like Garland has long passed. The next Dem-appointed justice should be someone with 50 more years of life in front of them.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#257020: Oct 6th 2018 at 5:56:21 PM

Impeach, pick someone that wasn't picked exclusively for being vaguely palatable to Republicans.

AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#257021: Oct 6th 2018 at 6:00:12 PM

[up] Porque no los dos?

I say we do both. Garland gets a seat, because he deserves one. And we get a younger, more liberal justice for Kavanaugh's seat.

Doing them in reverse order makes it better anyway. Garland gets his seat, and then when Kavanaugh is inevitably found guilty, public opinion can be gauged to see if another justice is feasible.

[down][awesome][awesome][awesome][awesome][awesome] Everything you just said there. Though there was one other time, back when Trump was locking people in cages (or at least when we first heard about it), that there was this much outrage.

Edited by AzurePaladin on Oct 6th 2018 at 9:07:02 AM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#257022: Oct 6th 2018 at 6:03:43 PM

Man, I haven't felt this angry about political news since Trump won. Manchin can go fuck himself. Because, like, his vote wasn't really a symbolic vote this time. He was one of the swing voters. I have previously been of the opinion that we needed him to stick around, because the WV democrats probably don't have anyone that can fill his shoes that isn't equally bad. Well that's out the window now. Making sure we don't back people who are in favour of rapists on the Supreme Court is more important than concerns like that.

Collins is in the same boat. She plays the bipartisan moderate, but it's not like there were any nonpartisan reasons to support Kavanaugh.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#257023: Oct 6th 2018 at 6:18:34 PM

I say we do both. Garland gets a seat, because he deserves one. And we get a younger, more liberal justice for Kavanaugh's seat.

If there are sufficient numbers to impeach Kavanaugh, then there's no reason to broach packing the court. Impeach, encourage every non-conservative member of the court to retire.

[up] Manchin's role is a weathervane, not a swing voter. Literally all that would have happened if his vote changed is requiring one guy to quit his daughter's wedding and Pence to vote.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#257024: Oct 6th 2018 at 6:26:33 PM

And that one guy who went to his daughter's wedding said he'd be willing to fly back and vote "yes" if he had to, I believe.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#257025: Oct 6th 2018 at 6:28:16 PM

So what you're saying is that most charitable readings of his actions is that he felt that not inconveniencing Pence was more important than making it clear he was against rape. What a swell guy. Though, to be fair, that's where Murkowski ended up, and she is lower on my shit list.

But, like, no. He didn't cast his vote in isolation. He and Collins and a few other talked it over amongst themselves, and pledged to vote together. He was one of the people who made the final decision here- probably he could've convinced Collins to vote No if he had Murkowski had been united on this. But ultimately they decided to have Collins and Manchin share the blame equally instead of having it be on just one of them.


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