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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#256976: Oct 6th 2018 at 1:56:19 PM

Didn’t the mods already issue a warning against doomsaying here?
A warning? Just the one?

Edited by sgamer82 on Oct 6th 2018 at 2:59:01 AM

MrHellboy The Shadow from A world of my own Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Shadow
#256977: Oct 6th 2018 at 1:57:25 PM

It's people like that make me wish this forum had a Block option

The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#256978: Oct 6th 2018 at 1:58:51 PM

A better plan than impeachment (though that would be nice) is to go the FDR route. As has been said repeatedly.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#256979: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:01:18 PM

I was kind of ambivalent on court packing, but like others have already said, the veneer of non-partisanship in the Supreme Court is basically gone now anyway.

So long as actually qualified people who aren't independently scum are appointed, I doubt I'd have an issue with it.

Edited by LSBK on Oct 6th 2018 at 4:03:51 AM

MrHellboy The Shadow from A world of my own Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Shadow
#256980: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:01:36 PM

[up] Which was what again?

EDIT: Never mind. Court-packing, right

Edited by MrHellboy on Oct 6th 2018 at 4:01:18 AM

The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.
CookingCat Since: Jul, 2018
#256981: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:02:11 PM

Doomsayers/pessimists are useless and just demoralize people.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#256982: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:04:17 PM

FDR never actually packed the courts, but when they got to the point of trying to wholesale block the New Deal it was "get out of the way or the courts do get packed".

The point of checks and balances is not that the court can completely dictate legislative and executive action—since those two bodies have authority over its appointments (and unexpected removals)

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#256983: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:04:46 PM

Yeah, you're right. I'm sorry. I was just really upset about today's news; it was like everything we exposed about Kavanaugh in the past month didn't even make a difference. At times I just feel like I'm shouting at a hurricane.

But it's wrong, I shouldn't do it, and I won't do it anymore.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#256984: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:07:22 PM

Remember that Kavanaugh is already unpopular. A lot of Americans did not want him.

The only advice I have for others right now is: Don't let them intimidate you, no matter what their title is.

Do not obey in advance.
BigMadDraco Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#256985: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:07:38 PM

Don't give into despair, get angry and never forget that the choice is between R for Russia and Rape or D for Democracy and Decency.

Edited by BigMadDraco on Oct 6th 2018 at 2:25:34 AM

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#256986: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:10:12 PM

I'm no fan of rap, but I don't think the republicans are either. tongue

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#256987: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:11:38 PM

The next step is Midterms, because if the Dems want to oppose the GOP Agenda, they need some actual strength to do it.

"You can reply to this Message!"
TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#256988: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:11:41 PM

Don't give into despair, get angry and never forget that the choice is between R for Russia and Rap or D for Democracy and Decency.

Understood.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#256989: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:13:02 PM

My math brain says this is good. But my D&D brain is busy panicking in the corner and waiting for the critical fumble.

Heh I know exactly what you mean, as an XCOM player I see 72% and think "oh god my soldier's going to miss". Thankfully reality doesn't run on XCOM or D&D logic tongue

The next step is Midterms, because if the Dems want to oppose the GOP Agenda, they need some actual strength to do it.

Yeah, one silver lining to Kavanaugh's appointment is that Republicans are likely to see their control of the Government and the Court and decide that they don't need to vote. This could cause their turnout to deflate, which is exactly what we need.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 6th 2018 at 5:13:19 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#256990: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:15:39 PM

Remember that Kavanaugh is already unpopular. A lot of Americans did not want him.

And that matters how? He is there for life and thats that.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#256991: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:17:45 PM

And that matters how? He is there for life and thats that.

You're completely right.

After all it's not like:

-An election is coming up.

-Impeachment is possible

-Court packing is possible

-We can just ignore any Supreme Court decision that involves him a la Andrew Jackson.

Oh wait, all of those things are true! So maybe let's not say that nothing matters ok?

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#256992: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:19:26 PM

We can just ignore any Supreme Court decision that involves him a la Andrew Jackson.

Hold the fuck up, we can do that?

i'm tired, my friend
TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#256993: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:19:54 PM

Yeah, one silver lining to Kavanaugh's appointment is that Republicans are likely to see their control of the Government and the Court and decide that they don't need to vote.

That would be absolutely amazing if it happened. But by the same token, we need to remind our Democratic colleagues that they do need to vote. We've already incurred enough damage from two years of an unchecked Trump administration; another two is unthinkable.

Like, I still have friends who claim that they're "apolitical" or that they "don't follow politics", and... no. You can't afford to be either of those things when so much is at stake.

I think I'm just going to post this on my Facebook wall every day leading up to the election.

Edited by TyeDyeWildebeest on Oct 6th 2018 at 5:20:17 AM

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
MrHellboy The Shadow from A world of my own Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Shadow
#256994: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:20:25 PM

The point is to not let them break us. That's what they want. For us to give in to hopelessness and despair and let them conquer us completely.

We're not gonna do that. If they want a fight, it's a fight they'll get.

We CAN beat them.

The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.
TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#256995: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:22:28 PM

[up] You're absolutely right. Again, I'm really sorry for the doomsaying last page. It won't happen again.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#256996: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:23:24 PM

The amount of gerrymandering and flat out covering up that has happened... No, I dont see any of that ever happening.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#256997: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:23:26 PM

RE: Murkowski's vote - she voted "Present" instead so she wouldn't cause her colleague, Sen. Daines, wouldn't have to fly back from his daughter's wedding just to off-set her vote.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#256998: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:23:37 PM

Hold the fuck up, we can do that?

Kind of.

It's about power.

To put it simplistically. The power of Congress is the money they have, the power of the President is the military that obeys them, but the power of the Supreme Court is just their legitimacy.

So if the legitimacy is harmed (which it is by default from Kavanaugh ascending) then Congress just ignoring their power is possible. Hence why I referenced Andrew Jackson, that's more or less what he did when he clashed with the Supreme Court.

So we could totally say "Brett Kavanaugh has made his decision and let him enforce it" and ignore everything the rapist decides to rule.

The amount of gerrymandering and flat out covering up that has happened... No, I dont see any of that ever happening.

Ah but don't confuse a failure of imagination on your part with reality, all of the things I mentioned are possible. Gerrymandering just makes it slightly harder to achieve the kind of power we need to do that, but slightly harder is not impossible.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 6th 2018 at 5:28:33 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#256999: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:25:06 PM

Laws are only as strong as their enforcement.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#257000: Oct 6th 2018 at 2:26:27 PM

The amount of gerrymandering and flat out covering up that has happened... No, I dont see any of that ever happening.

If all you're going to do here is doomsay, you might as well just keep it to yourself. I don't begrudge people being upset today, but this isn't helpful.


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