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Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#256926: Oct 6th 2018 at 9:46:50 AM

But it's the supreme court,the highest court in the land,undermining that court will undermine the foundation of the laws that govern the country and erode the trust people have in their lawmarkers

This might lead to reform later down the line,maybe even abolishing justices serving for life,but at cost undermining laws and authority

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#256927: Oct 6th 2018 at 9:47:37 AM

[up][up] Before anyone accuses this text of being accelerationist, I'll point out that almost nobody here wanted this and it's simply trying to make the best out of a lying, unfit judge being elected to the Supreme Court.

I disagree any conversation will happen though, the current leadership of Democrats is too afraid of rocking the boat in any way, like with the Electoral college where the majority of party members want a change but no discussion is ever held in congress.

Edited by Grafite on Oct 6th 2018 at 5:50:22 PM

Life is unfair...
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#256928: Oct 6th 2018 at 9:51:52 AM

[up][up] Perhaps, but I get that impression that the argument is that that trust isn’t actually warranted, and making people aware of that could lead to necessary reforms.

The authority is already undermined, in other words.

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Oct 6th 2018 at 12:51:38 PM

Oh God! Natural light!
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#256929: Oct 6th 2018 at 9:57:38 AM

But it's the supreme court,the highest court in the land,undermining that court will undermine the foundation of the laws that govern the country and erode the trust people have in their lawmarkers

The Constitution is the highest law of the land and Congress is our democratic representatives, the power of the Supreme Court is not intrinsic to our system and it's not intrinsically good. The point of the article is that the Supreme Court is going to undermine itself, we can pretend that it's a perfectly fine institution but that would be dangerously irresponsible.

Before anyone accuses this text of being accelerationist, I'll point out that almost nobody here wanted this and it's simply trying to make the best out of a lying, unfit judge being elected to the Supreme Court.

Huh, I hadn't thought of this perspective. Thanks for preemptively addressing the criticism smile

I disagree any conversation will happen though, the current leadership of Democrats is too afraid of rocking the boat in any way, like with the Electoral college where the majority of party members want a change but no discussion is ever held in congress.

Ok, let's say that this is true and your statement of faith that the Democratic leadership doesn't want to rock the boat is actually true, guess what? It doesn't matter, even if they don't want to do that they aren't going to have much choice if/when their programs are sabotaged or blocked by the Supreme Court. Then the base and the general public is likely going to demand they do something, and because they aren't morons they'll do it.

Also, changing the electoral college would require either a Constitutional amendment or some kind of interstate pact. Neither of which is done by Congress and thus holding the lack of discussion about it against them makes little sense.

Perhaps, but I get that impression that the argument is that that trust isn’t actually warranted, and making people aware of that could lead to necessary reforms.

The authority is already undermined, in other words.

Exactly this.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 6th 2018 at 1:00:38 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#256930: Oct 6th 2018 at 9:59:32 AM

[up][up]That. The point of the article is that Judicial impartiality is a myth, and has been for a minimum of 23 years. Putting this creep on the bench is an exclamation point on a concept that was already made abundantly clear with Garland and Gorsuch.

Edited by ViperMagnum357 on Oct 6th 2018 at 12:58:55 PM

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#256931: Oct 6th 2018 at 10:02:03 AM

Appointing new judges to the Supreme Court is entirely within the powers the other two arms of government have. The Supreme Court can't deviate so wildly and expect no repercussions. As the dissenting opinions tend to show, there's rarely ever one correct conclusion to draw on what a document that says nothing about the matter in hand suggests.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#256932: Oct 6th 2018 at 10:05:37 AM

Appointing new judges to the Supreme Court is entirely within the powers the other two arms of government have. The Supreme Court can't deviate so wildly and expect no repercussions. As the dissenting opinions tend to show, there's rarely ever one correct conclusion to draw on what a document that says nothing about the matter in hand suggests.

Well said, we should give them a good faith opportunity to care about their legitimacy but if they decide to block or otherwise obstruct progress then there's no reason to hold back. The fate of their institution is on their heads and we'll see what they decide.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#256933: Oct 6th 2018 at 10:19:35 AM

I see it like this,Justice is blind thus she's impartial,,but she has a sword thus authority,What good is there in a dull blade?

> but I get that impression that the argument is that that trust isn’t actually warranted, and making people aware of that could lead to necessary reforms.

It may not be warranted but I see no reason on Earth why it should be eroded further,you have to have some authority to turn to,you can't risk undermining it without opening to gates to anarchy and lawlessness

Edited by Ultimatum on Oct 6th 2018 at 10:22:42 AM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#256934: Oct 6th 2018 at 10:28:39 AM

I see it like this,Justice is blind thus she's impartial,,but she has a sword thus authority,What good is there in a dull blade?

And as we've established she isn't impartial, thus your position is already critically flawed.

It may not be warranted but I see no reason on Earth why it should be eroded further,you have to have some authority to turn to,you can't risk undermining it without opening to gates to anarchy and lawlessness

The Supreme Court is not the sum total of Law in the United States, in fact by their heavily biased and constitutionally unfounded actions they have been directly chipping away at our democracy and by extension its laws. Furthermore we aren't undermining it, they are by behaving in a destructive and extreme manner.

We should simply acknowledge reality rather than pretend that they're impartial and Just as you are.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 6th 2018 at 1:40:28 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#256935: Oct 6th 2018 at 10:44:27 AM

I concede on your points that people serving on the benches aren't as impartial as the laws itself is meant to be,though with the supreme courts undermined it's going to be harder for people argue for the law if authority behind it isn't up to stuff

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Ludlow Since: Apr, 2013
#256936: Oct 6th 2018 at 11:20:08 AM

The Democrats' odds of winning the House continue to drop precipitously: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2018-midterm-election-forecast/house/?ex_cid=rrpromo

Down to 73% while the Republicans have risen to 26% and keep rising.

Not doomsaying, simply stating facts[down]

Edited by Ludlow on Oct 6th 2018 at 11:28:49 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#256937: Oct 6th 2018 at 11:23:28 AM

The Democrats' odds of winning the House continue to drop precipitously: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2018-midterm-election-forecast/house/?ex_cid=rrpromo

Down to 73% while the Republicans have risen to 26% and keep rising.

A reminder to everyone that this just means that while previously we would win it 8 out of 10 times we now would just win 7 out of 10 times.

Just because it's dropped doesn't mean that it must keep on dropping, I know this is a waste of breath but lets avoid doomsaying ok?

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
MattC Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: My own grandpa
#256938: Oct 6th 2018 at 11:25:03 AM

[up][up]Well, so far everything in defiance of logic has consistently gone well for Trump, so why would the midterms be any different.

Edited by MattC on Oct 6th 2018 at 2:24:31 PM

"What do we say to the God of Death? Sean Bean is over there."
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#256939: Oct 6th 2018 at 11:28:23 AM

Well, so far everything in defiance of logic has consistently gone well for Trump, so why would the midterms be any different.

See! I knew it was a waste of breath.

Learn probabilities, 7 out of 10 odds for a Democratic House are not "consistently going well for Trump" they're literally the exact opposite. Furthermore, there is no reason to assume that this drop must continue, that just isn't rational.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 6th 2018 at 2:34:05 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#256940: Oct 6th 2018 at 11:32:37 AM

At this point worrying about fluctuations like that seems a bit unwarranted. If it were like a week before midterms I'd care more, but there's probably a pretty good chance of them shifting again later after this Kavanaugh stuff dies down.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#256941: Oct 6th 2018 at 11:34:11 AM

Also keep in mind that we haven't seen the fallout of the Kavanaugh vote yet.

[up][nja]

Edited by kkhohoho on Oct 6th 2018 at 1:36:55 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#256942: Oct 6th 2018 at 11:37:27 AM

A small reminder: It will be pretty much impossible to predict the upcoming elections anyway...and here is why:

Those kind of prediction are always based on data from previous Votings. The MOMENT you have an election in which people you would usually not expect to turn up, they are screwing the numbers big time.

And now consider the anger in the population. How likely do you think will women who would normally not vote turn up this time around? Or men who actually care about the notion of the government being taken over by sexual predators and those who support them?

So, let them do their math...and I HOPE that they will underestimate the Democratic votes. Because the more secure the Republican voters feel, the more likely there will be a blue tsunami.

Edited by Swanpride on Oct 6th 2018 at 11:40:18 AM

Ludlow Since: Apr, 2013
#256943: Oct 6th 2018 at 11:39:25 AM

[up][up] But you guys don't understand, its trending upward because of Kavanaugh. The fight over the supreme court has rallied the Republican base that previously was less interested in midterms before this whole thing started. With their latest victory, the could very well continue to rally support behind them.

Edited by Ludlow on Oct 6th 2018 at 11:38:48 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#256944: Oct 6th 2018 at 11:41:20 AM

And they could also not do that. No one misunderstood anything.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#256945: Oct 6th 2018 at 11:41:27 AM

[up][up]Yeah but if they *get* Kavanaugh, they may just decide 'Mission Accomplished' and go home again. There've been reports of the GOP having issues with their base not believing poll and believing Trump in that their victory is assured.

Edited by 3of4 on Oct 6th 2018 at 8:40:55 PM

"You can reply to this Message!"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#256946: Oct 6th 2018 at 11:45:04 AM

As I said, it will also drive people who usually don't vote to the polling stations. And remember, the republicans are actually in the minority here.

Ludlow Since: Apr, 2013
#256947: Oct 6th 2018 at 11:57:18 AM

[up] Are they? They seem to have more than enough numbers to win a majority of all elected seats in Congress? Not to mention that the people who don't usually vote were completely unmoved by similar sexual assault allegations in 2016. I'm sure there will be a whole lot of angry blogs and twitter posts, but when the time comes it probably won't translate to votes.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#256948: Oct 6th 2018 at 11:59:10 AM

[up]*sigh* If you're just gonna insist it's all doomed, I'm not really wasting time arguing.

"You can reply to this Message!"
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#256949: Oct 6th 2018 at 12:00:05 PM

  1. These polls are based on a sample asking people about their likelihood of voting (or asking a selection of likely voters who they're liable to vote for.
  2. All recent changes are based on leading up to the Kavanaugh vote, which was motivating Republicans.
  3. It was down at 72% last night.

Ludlow Since: Apr, 2013
#256950: Oct 6th 2018 at 12:03:56 PM

[up][up] Look, I'm arguing things here. If there's anything the last election taught us its that relying on people who don't usually vote to vote is a fools game.


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