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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
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This thread is about US politics, not about seeing how fast we can all get ourselves into a deep depression speculating about stuff we aren’t educated enough to productively speculate about.
The Senate is, in fact, broken, and will need to be dealt with eventually because it is heinously undemocratic.
Edited by wisewillow on Oct 5th 2018 at 10:13:45 AM
That level of cynicism is approaching close to sociopathy. I would think the left can be better than that. There are some morals you don't compromise.
Edited by Gaon on Oct 5th 2018 at 7:19:37 AM
"All you Fascists bound to lose."That's also my position. I'm all for long term and being pragmatic, but I can hardly blame anyone for being upset at Manchin. He might be useful down the line but this isn't something you can just live down and it's a bit...insensitive to not consider that this reflects on something personal that people have to live with every day? Whatever your opinion is, at least be understanding.
Edited by Draghinazzo on Oct 5th 2018 at 10:23:47 AM
~TheWanted, this is not a thread for despair-exclusive posts. Contribute substantively to discussions moving forward or you will be thumped.
@wisewillow: Yes, but the sort of nihilistic pragmatism he's railing against is more or less the opposite of sociopathy in all regards other than empathy. My objection to that sort of approach is that human beings, being irrational and emotional, can't even hope to conduct such a cold utilitarian calculus in a detached and impartial fashion, which negates the point of attempting to do so in the first place.
A leading Holocaust historian just seriously compared the US to Nazi Germany.
...
Browning’s essay covers many topics, ranging from Trump’s “America First” foreign policy — a phrase most closely associated with a group of prewar American Nazi sympathizers — to the role of Fox News as a kind of privatized state propaganda office. But the most interesting part of his argument is the comparison between Senate Majority Leader Mitch Mc Connell and Paul von Hindenburg, the German leader who ultimately handed power over to Hitler. Here’s how Browning summarizes the history:
...
Mc Connell, in Browning’s eyes, is doing something similar — taking whatever actions he can to attain power, including breaking the system for judicial nominations (cough cough, Merrick Garland) and empowering a dangerous demagogue under the delusion that he can be fully controlled:
Godwin's Law becomes more literal. There's a reason why people calling Trumpists Neo-Nazis isn't all bias.
ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
It's somewhat more complicated than that; if you read the actual article he concedes of course that there are some key differences between the United States and Weimar Germany; what we should fear is not the sort of plunge into outright totalitarianism the occurred in Germany, but rather the gradual undermining and deterioration of democracy into populist strongman rule similar to what we see in modern day Turkey, a system which in many ways shares more in common with the mob rule skeptics of democracy such as Plato expressed concerns about than it does with fascism.
Edited by CaptainCapsase on Oct 5th 2018 at 10:50:23 AM
I wasnt trying to be despair inducing or anything with that question about a cvil war. Frankly I think we havent had a second one is that the first was so horrible nobody is in the mood for a do-over. Which is a good thing.
I suppose what I mean is that the imo the divide has gotten too deep. There are certain values we've generally agreed to compromise with each other on, but we've been steadily moving torwards the core values that cant be.
There isn’t going to be a civil war. That’s simply not realistic in any way, even bringing it up is baseless fearmongering.
I’ll echo what Cap said above, American totalitarianism has always been to the tune of a populist strongman, not a Nazi state. That makes it both easier and harder to defeat, it’s a slow slide so we have time to work on it but it’s less obvious.
Edited by archonspeaks on Oct 5th 2018 at 7:59:52 AM
They should have sent a poet.

That the world's a terrible place and unfortunately how people who can't directly affect the outcome feel ends up secondary to creating a scenario where the better option is not an inherent risk. It's a horrible message but at the same time: take the lead as good, take the moral high ground, and land someone universally worse and possibly lose the senate maths.
Probability is callous but it doesn't inherently lie.