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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
If you do evil because you're trying to appeal to evil, you're still evil.
Appealing to scumbag voters does not make you less of a scumbag for it.
If you're not going to vote for good, there's no point.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 5th 2018 at 6:41:37 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.Even if we completely disregard all basic human decency, which in my opinion is more important because there are limits to pragmatism over principles, a spot on the Supreme Court for the next 30 years is worth more than a 6 year Senate seat.
And again, this isn’t a military spending bill, this isn’t Gorsuch replacing Scalia. This is a goddamn attempted rapist, Republican hack who lied repeatedly under oath. Why the hell should West Virginia Democrats show up for Manchin?
Is throwing away any future *possibility* of ever making another stand or any hope of challenging any future legislation worth changing his vote and making no difference now?
Is it worth throwing away any future resistance to any immigration vote? Any healthcare bill? Further opposition to the wall? Anything and everything after this?
Bearing in mind that his vote changed absolutely nothing.
Is this the hill you really wanna die on and lose your ability to fight back against anything else that might happen?
Especially when if we get a chance to impeach we'll need his seat too?
Edited by LeGarcon on Oct 5th 2018 at 9:45:27 AM
Oh really when?So, no basis at all. The whole reason Repub enthusiasm went up is gone.
Perfectly reasonable if Manchin was the decisive vote. He's not.
But a fiction.
His position wouldn't have moved that much.
The threat of it is quite real.
Edited by RainehDaze on Oct 5th 2018 at 2:47:24 PM
Right, I forgot, your base definitely want to turn up for you when you never try to accomplish anything and roll over and let yourself be steamrolled all the time. That’s how winning works, isn’t it?
Oh, wait, what was that whole 2010 midterms and Republican obstructionism thing? That totally didn’t work, man, they lost so hard in 2014 and 2016; we better just shush and stop yelling at the bad men or people won’t like us.
Edited by wisewillow on Oct 5th 2018 at 9:45:04 AM
If Manchin is the 51st vote than it’s a whatever, it sucks and he sucks but he’s allowed a pass at that point, but if he’s the 50th vote than there should be hell the pay, because at that point it’s on his shoulders. He’d still be able to redeem himself, by voting to impeach Bret if the Dems make it to 66 Senate seats one day.
Oh and can we get a mod in here to start thumping all the pointless doomsaying about how this ensures total Republican victory in novemember, dear god, the vote hasn’t even happened yet.
I’m still gonna cross my fingers that Manchin faces enough backlash from democrats in West Virginia that he changes his mind, hopefully at the last second after the absent Republicans senator has decided he doesn't need to turn up because Manchin is voting yes.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranI’m going to drop the previous discussion now, but a final comment.
In general, it is sometimes necessary to put pragmatism before principles. However, there are also limits. And it is deeply, deeply hurtful and traumatic to see people say that women’s trauma doesn’t matter, that all the stories from sexual assault and rape survivors sitting in on Capitol Hill and in Senate offices don’t matter, because Joe Manchin keeping his seat (when he has a decent lead already) is more important than they are. I don’t think you had any bad intentions here, but think about the impact of what you are saying. Think about what message it sends to women and sexual assault survivors.
Yeah as much as I’m for pragmatism and practicality I couldn’t fault any women in West Virginia if they felt they couldn’t vote for Manchin after this, nor do I want the DNC spending money on him instead of possible gains in states where senators would actully vote against shit like this.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran@kkhohoho: That's not what models are predicting either; rather we see a decoupling of the House and Senate midterms, with the GOP having a pretty great year in the senate and a bad year in the House.
I've said it before, but the structure of the senate is a huge anchor weighing down on the American political system, overwhelmingly favoring rural whites (~80% of the senate electorate is white) in a nation that is increasingly diverse.

The choice is "take the wrong position when it ultimately doesn't matter" or "risk someone who'll take the wrong position when it does matter." Again, in a generally close environment. Probability is a fickle thing and politics is a filthy business; cynicism has a place.
~45% chance the GOP gains a seat. There's a reason I'm focusing on margins here.
Edited by RainehDaze on Oct 5th 2018 at 2:37:04 PM