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In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#256776: Oct 5th 2018 at 4:52:08 PM

Okay, let’s all agree we should draw the line at advocating for assassination. That’s really just not helpful.

No disrespect intended to anyone or their experiences, but that’s not somewhere we should be going.

Edited by archonspeaks on Oct 5th 2018 at 4:51:50 AM

They should have sent a poet.
Reflextion from a post-sanity world (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
#256777: Oct 5th 2018 at 4:57:23 PM
Thumped: Please see The Rules . This is a warning that this post is the sort of thing that will get you suspended.
Someone did tell me life was going to be this way.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#256778: Oct 5th 2018 at 5:03:20 PM

Well, regardless when Trump dies there’s going to be a shit ton of parties and celebrations

New Survey coming this weekend!
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#256779: Oct 5th 2018 at 5:04:00 PM

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/06/manchin-trump-west-virginia-midterms-626437

Manchin is a political chameleon who works with whoever will support him and his position.

But my distaste for the man is well known.

In any case, he's already cast his vote.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#256780: Oct 5th 2018 at 5:04:06 PM

Forgot to mention that my biological father is a hypocritical shitstain of a man who hits pretty much all of the criteria for being The Sociopath, had emotionally and sometimes physically abused me during my first 18 years of life, essentially stole massive amounts of money from my mother that she had been saving up for me and my younger brothers' future before we discovered how much of scumbag he was, and stooped down as low as to kidnap my youngest brother for several months, convince at least one university official who was a student counsellor to help him try to verbally browbeat me into repenting for my filial impiety, bribed several judges in an attempt to get out of paying any expenses for my then-underaged brothers (he failed), and continues to be a source of trouble to this day for me and my family even though he no longer "graces" us with his personal presence.

Because that's a major factor in me leaning towards the cynical side of the spectrum.

Killing just one person isn't going to do anything to change the present state of affairs or the human-shaped excrement that drives it.
I'm smart enough to know this much. Just saying.

Well, regardless when Trump dies there’s going to be a shit ton of parties and celebrations
Parties nothing, I'd dance on his grave in public and not give a damn about anyone being offended.

Also, if wasn't a hardcore teetotaller for religious reasons, I'd invite you all for an all-night drinking party if that ever happens while he's still in office.

Edited by MarqFJA on Oct 5th 2018 at 3:05:41 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#256781: Oct 5th 2018 at 5:06:15 PM

I have no idea why any of this requires talking about political assassinations that haven't happened or been attempted.

nombretomado (Season 1) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#256782: Oct 5th 2018 at 5:08:36 PM

Please do not insinuate, imply, propose, or otherwise outright state murder is a solution.

Edited by nombretomado on Oct 5th 2018 at 5:08:26 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#256783: Oct 5th 2018 at 5:12:03 PM

The midterms won't change the fact that the Supreme Court will be decidedly tainted for decades more to come, all because of a "moderate" democrat.

Uh no, Manchin voted yes when the Republicans already had their votes because of Collins. So he didn't decide it. If Collins had voted no I can state with complete certainty that he would've voted no.

And yes considering that he votes with the Democrats 70-80% as a representative from West Virginia I would absolutely call him a moderate Democrat.

Yes this vote is distasteful but he's a useful asset to the Party and I'll stand by that position.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 5th 2018 at 8:14:53 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#256784: Oct 5th 2018 at 5:31:37 PM

I understand why people are upset about his vote because of symbolic meaning, but I also get the people not caring about symbolic meaning when it's not accompanied by anything else.

So I'm just sort of in a place of "Yeah, I don't really like his vote, but the vitriol seems over the top given the circumstances."

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#256785: Oct 5th 2018 at 5:38:30 PM

My ire, if I have any in me, is reserved mostly for Collins and that shit stupid speech she gave today.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#256786: Oct 5th 2018 at 5:40:08 PM

THREE QUARTERS OF AN HOUR.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#256787: Oct 5th 2018 at 5:44:54 PM

Here's some good news, as a consequence of Collins' repugnant speech there are calls for Democrats to prepare for a campaign against her in 2020, and activists have already raised more than one million dollars to use against her.

I think we could see her career go down in flames just because she wanted to own the Libs.

Which is exactly what she deserves, a fitting punishment.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 5th 2018 at 8:45:31 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#256788: Oct 5th 2018 at 5:45:50 PM

What exactly was her speech about?

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#256789: Oct 5th 2018 at 5:46:43 PM

My mom just said she hopes there's Republicans who just aren't saying anything about how they're going to vote tomorrow. I don't know if she believed me when I said they're all voting along the party line.

Then again, she's definitely old enough to remember when bi partisan support was the expected norm in the Senate and not this party line stuff. And hasn't been watching nothing but the news like I have this week.

[up]Justifying her yes vote. Like, she could have done that in a third of the time.

Edited by AceofSpades on Oct 5th 2018 at 7:49:25 AM

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#256790: Oct 5th 2018 at 5:49:01 PM

It was exceedingly long. And lots of "innocent until proven guilty", insisting she's voted for all nominees whilst in the Senate, decrying the state of politics etc. etc. Total waste of time, she could've finished a minute after she started as it was clear it's just self-justifying bullshit.

Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#256791: Oct 5th 2018 at 5:49:25 PM

Personally, I don't care why anyone voted to confirm Kavanaugh any more than I care why anyone has done any other terrible thing. The deed matters, while the reason does not. When the chance to support basic human decency or support appointing a rapist to the highest court in the land, he took the second one. If this is what he is like under the light of public scrutiny, I shudder to think what he is like in the dark.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#256792: Oct 5th 2018 at 5:49:53 PM

What exactly was her speech about?

Vox has an article about it. They also have a transcript of her speech.

She apparently attacked one of the victims as "outlandish" and used the fact that multiple women accused him as evidence that it was somehow less reliable. And she spent the time lauding Kavanaugh as some great guy as if he hadn't committed perjury repeatedly at the bare minimum

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 5th 2018 at 8:49:40 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#256793: Oct 5th 2018 at 5:50:45 PM

[up] She was trying to justify it to herself, and reconcile the congitive dissonance. I wonder if she managed to convince herself?

Edited by megaeliz on Oct 5th 2018 at 8:53:51 AM

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#256794: Oct 5th 2018 at 5:53:18 PM

[up]That. Collins is legitimately delusional, albeit in a different fashion than most of the GOP: she thinks she is still doing the will of her voters because she keeps getting elected in Maine. In reality, she only won her original seat because 2 third parties gave her the election on the platter, and she has represented the ruby red portions of Maine ever since because 1) this state is Purple and 2) the Democrats have always been awful at campaigning here.

Edited by ViperMagnum357 on Oct 5th 2018 at 8:52:56 AM

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#256795: Oct 5th 2018 at 5:53:26 PM

My observation over the last year is that when more women come out complaining about the same man, that just means it's far more likely to be true. That's a noted pattern of behavior right there.

Like, I can understand thinking that one woman might have lied. But when two or more come out? Just. how?

[up]Let's hope they've learned and campaign more successfully in two years.

Edited by AceofSpades on Oct 5th 2018 at 7:56:25 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#256796: Oct 5th 2018 at 5:53:42 PM

Personally, I don't care why anyone voted to confirm Kavanaugh any more than I care why anyone has done any other terrible thing. The deed matters, while the reason does not. When the chance to support basic human decency or support appointing a rapist to the highest court in the land, he took the second one. If this is what he is like under the light of public scrutiny, I shudder to think what he is like in the dark.

If you want to judge him in an intellectually honest way you can't ignore the contexts or the consequences.

He did not decide the vote and thus the options were either-

1) Vote against it and thus change nothing merely for a symbolic stand that people in his state would not appreciate.

2) Vote for it and thus protect his position against being replaced with a Republican who would not align with the Democrats at all.

Thus his "terrible thing" while ideologically distasteful did not actually cause any real damage, Kavanaugh was getting in regardless of what Manchin did or didn't do. Personally, I don't feel the need to demand that he fall on his sword for us just because we want a pretty symbol.

She was trying to justify it to herself, and reconcile the congitive dissonance. I wonder if she managed to convince herself?

I think it's more that she was trying to contain the backlash by weakly pretending that she cared about any of the accusers.

She doesn't and her pathetic attempts will fail.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#256797: Oct 5th 2018 at 5:58:37 PM

My observation over the last year is that when more women come out complaining about the same man, that just means it's far more likely to be true. That's a noted pattern of behavior right there. Like, I can understand thinking that one woman might have lied. But when two or more come out? Just. how?

I've been thinking about that for a bit and to me it always comes down to what would the women have to actually gain by lying?

I would imagine if they wanted money or something, the chances of actually getting that goes down after making the accusations public instead of just first threatening to reveal them to negotiate or something.

And politics doesn't often work, because often the women making the threats are politically aligned with the men in question (I remember that being a sticking point that all of Roy Moore's accusers were solid Republican voters).

I know it's pointless thinking of things like this, because the point is that there's nothing that can actually convince most of them a woman is telling the truth about this (at least, not when she's accusing a Republican) but still.

Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#256798: Oct 5th 2018 at 6:01:49 PM

[up][up]I don't care how "tactical" his decision was, and if he has to keep acting like a Republican to keep a Republican from taking the seat.

Also, by this reasoning, the Democrats may as well all have voted for Kavanaugh because it wasn't going to change anything.

Also, when he keeps doing this, it becomes increasingly apparent that the magical time for him to "sacrifice himself" to "save the country/party" will never come, or if it does, he wi yet again throw aside morals in the name of "pragmatism"

Edited by Balmung on Oct 5th 2018 at 8:03:00 AM

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#256799: Oct 5th 2018 at 6:06:29 PM

Look, the maths for Manchin's support isn't hard.

Republican_defections = 2

Go either way off of that and he can curry favour with voters because his vote is literally irrelevant.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#256800: Oct 5th 2018 at 6:07:17 PM

I don't care how "tactical" his decision was, and if he has to keep acting like a Republican to keep a Republican from taking the seat.

When you say "acting like a Republican" do you mean "vote Democrat when it matters and Republican when it doesn't"?

Because I'm not aware of any Republicans who behave like that.

Also, by this reasoning, the Democrats may as well all have voted for Kavanaugh because it wasn't going to change anything.

What? Before Collins voted it was legitimately unclear whether or not Kavanaugh would pass. Furthermore, most Democrats aren't in West Virginia (which I will remind you went to Trump by 40% in 2016) thus the calculus for them is different.

Also, when he keeps doing this, it becomes increasingly apparent that the magical time for him to "sacrifice himself" to "save the country/party" will never come, or if it does, he wi yet again throw aside morals in the name of "pragmatism"

Firstly that's not why he's useful, he's useful because he's a Democrat in West Virginia and thus will actually vote with us when it matters rather than a Republican replacement who would never vote for us.

Furthermore sacrificing himself in this context wouldn't save anything in that the vote was literally decided before he did anything. Voting no wouldn't have changed anything practically other than hurting his statewide position.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang

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