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Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#256301: Oct 2nd 2018 at 6:24:53 AM

@ Reflextion: it’s because it’s such a old and tired cliche that all foreigners hate all Americans that aren’t even the ones in power messing everything up.

There’s nothing wrong with feeling offended for that.

Edited by Demongodofchaos2 on Oct 2nd 2018 at 9:24:47 AM

Watch Symphogear
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#256302: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:01:42 AM

At least the Europeans are currently paying more attention to the circus which is the UK anyway. Not that what the US does a good look in any way, but I guess we are mostly laying in wait for the next election.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#256303: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:05:04 AM

we're not a circus!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#256304: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:07:21 AM

Yes, a circus is actually kind of fun sometimes, potential animal abuse aside.

Watching Brexit unfold is like watching a car slowly drive off a cliff while being completely unable to do anything about it.

Edited by M84 on Oct 2nd 2018 at 10:07:45 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#256305: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:09:41 AM

It's watching several ruthless career politicians trying to calmly and reasonably explain their rationale for eating three grenades and making everyone else do the same.

Edited by math792d on Oct 2nd 2018 at 4:09:42 PM

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#256306: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:09:55 AM

Bo Jo certainly makes a good clown.

[up][up] Just visit a circus which has no animal numbers. Roncalli got big this way.

Edited by Swanpride on Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:09:50 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#256307: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:10:47 AM

[up][up]Well hey now, it's not like they are personally eating the grenades. They are feeding the populace grenades while they are making plans to fuck off to a grenade-free tax haven.

Edited by M84 on Oct 2nd 2018 at 10:13:14 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#256308: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:14:19 AM

> Watching Brexit unfold is like watching a car slowly drive off a cliff while being completely unable to do anything about it.

and then the car explodes mid air,good thing we fitted it an ejector seat..I hope

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#256309: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:15:41 AM

The Brexiteers seem to think their car will start flying with magic like the Weasleys' car in Harry Potter. Too bad nobody told them that magic is fake as shit.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#256310: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:19:13 AM

Potential bad news from New Jersey. Senator Menndez is only two points ahead of his Republican opponent. This is almost entirely due to corruption scandals.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/10/01/politics/menendez-hugin-new-jersey-senate-poll/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F

While I find it unlikely that the GOP could flip such a Blue state in a political environment like this, its still worrying.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#256311: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:32:55 AM

The reason to push him through is because they don't have time to pick another candidate before the Senate potentially shifts to blue.

There is a very real but not significant chance of that happening, but if they push through Kavanaugh then they could greatly increase the odds of the Senate going blue (suburban women going to the Democrats en masse would be devastating) and they could weaken the legitimacy of the Supreme Court enough to possibly make court packing viable.

This is not a wise long-term strategy on the Republican's part, they're just held hostage by their own frothing irrationality and Trump.

People really need to stop assuming that the Republicans are rational actors, they're not and it's very likely that high numbers of them are drinking the kool-aid.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 2nd 2018 at 10:33:58 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#256312: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:55:46 AM

Well... The thing is though... Speaking for myself I don't hate Americans for being Americans. I do, of course, have some harsh words for parts of the current leadership, but the number of Americans I consider in need of a good poke is far, far larger than that.

For a variety of reasons and due to a range of factors (the Trump presidency being one of them) I've had occasion to speak personally to a number of recent immigrants from the US lately and... Well... I've noticed there's a certain commonality.

While the stereotype of the American as a boisterous, loud-mouth ignoramus who wants things their way or not at all, and not at all is not an option, is something that's generally false (except for a certain subset of tourists, but then tourist stereotypes tend to ring more true than immigrant stereotypes for the same country in most cases any way), I have noticed that Americans generally possess, at the same time, both a sort of innocent lack of awareness that many of the things Americans consider normal are very much not normal anywhere else in the world and a general assumption that any difference between American culture or praxis and the culture and praxis of their new home must similarly be new to the local residents (Which it's usually not, we get American movies and television here too).

Really the most telling part of these conversations is how one American friend remarked with astonishment that they'd encountered natives who told them they were Christians in the same tone and fashion that an American might tell someone they hadn't known very long, but trusted, that they were gay. And then I had to explain to them that while the Netherlands has only become majority irreligious in the last decade, it's been, by choice, strongly secular for over half a century and that one's religious convictions are generally considered a very personal affair and that explicitly referring to one's religion in public tends to be something that Dutch people only do when they're about to say something horribly offensive.
And when they responded with an eyebrow waggle and said 'Not so different from the US then.', I had to gently correct them and explain that, for instance, when an American says something like 'As a Catholic, I believe we should take better care of the poor.' they're reaffirming their Catholic values and that's fine... But when a Dutch person says the same thing, everyone understands that that 'As a Catholic' is a cultural shorthand that means they believe the current lack of proper treatment of the poor is the fault of the Protestants, Muslims and Agnostics/Atheists in the government (the fact that we have Muslims in our parliament was a secondary minor culture shock).

Edited by Robrecht on Oct 2nd 2018 at 4:57:23 PM

Angry gets shit done.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#256313: Oct 2nd 2018 at 8:27:44 AM

The reason to push him through is because they don't have time to pick another candidate before the Senate potentially shifts to blue.

They do have the time, not enough time to push someone though before the midterms, but they still have nearly two months after that when they’d be able to push someone though via a lame-duck senate.

Now pretty soon they won’t have the time to switch, but that’s because they’ve stuck with this so long, the time limit has become a thing because they’ve stuck with him, they haven’t stuck with him because of the time limit.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#256314: Oct 2nd 2018 at 8:44:43 AM

I had to gently correct them and explain that, for instance, when an American says something like 'As a Catholic, I believe we should take better care of the poor.' they're reaffirming their Catholic values and that's fine... But when a Dutch person says the same thing, everyone understands that that 'As a Catholic' is a cultural shorthand that means they believe the current lack of proper treatment of the poor is the fault of the Protestants, Muslims and Agnostics/Atheists in the government...

Hang on, I thought this paragraph was about things that were different from the US. I have never heard anyone, ever, say 'as a Catholic...' or 'we as Christians believe...' without the implicit statement that people who aren't those things don't believe whatever follows the ellipsis. With the possible exception of in Mass itself, for like the Nicene Creed or whatever... which still applies, it's just less judgy.

Edited by RedSavant on Oct 2nd 2018 at 11:48:22 AM

It's been fun.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#256315: Oct 2nd 2018 at 9:00:09 AM

[up][up][up] Yeah, I got the same impression. I have nothing against American's personally, they are usually nice, welcoming people (at least when you are white, I can't speak for how for example a black person experiences America), and frankly, there was a time when it was nicer to travel to the US than, for example, to France (not the case anymore, at least not to this degree), because while a lot of American's grow up with Nazi stereotypes, the first thing they usually ask you is something about the autobahn, the car industry (cue shock over our gas/petrol prices) and maybe beer. At least this is my experience.

But (yes, there is also a but), Americans also tend to be, well, kind of ignorant. And I know that sounds like an insult, but hear me out: Due to the fact that the US is so big and that for a lot of Americans the longest travel they have ever made is either to the next Disney Park or down to Mexico, where they spend their whole time partying in some hotel instead of exploring well, anything, they kind of have no sense whatsoever that there is another way of life which might be just as good or perhaps in some areas even better than what they have. Sure, there are cultural differences between Texas and New Orleans, but that is not the same as experiencing a place with a different language and an entirely different history. Pair this with the whole "America is the greatest country in the world" idea they grow up with, it is no wonder whatsoever that they still have no proper healthcare for everyone. Because if they were looking past their borders, they would see that exactly that works just fine in so many countries. They would see that there are countries with higher food standards, with stricter regulations for the water supply, with better working conditions, with a bigger concern for the environment, and that those countries thrive with all of this in place just fine.

They (btw, "they" refers to the majority, there are certainly also Americans who have travelled or who are aware, but they are the exception, not the rule) also tend to have little understanding that cultural nuances are just different in other countries.

And I think that this lack of understanding for this AND a lack of understanding for history is part of the reason why the US is currently kind of in freefall. They don't really see the danger as acute as some people in Europe do, because for them war and fascism is something which happens elsewhere. The current European generation at least grew up with stories about the war or the post war period from their grandparents. They have seen the pictures of their cities bombed to the ground. The only thing they have is 9/11, which destroyed their sense of being absolutely untouchable. But that is not quite the same than being raised with the idea that the one thing which has to be avoided at all cost is war.

Edited by Swanpride on Oct 2nd 2018 at 8:59:48 AM

Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#256316: Oct 2nd 2018 at 9:07:56 AM

[up][up] On this very forum I can point you to one prominent example of a person who does not do that: Charles Phipps. Self proclaimed Christian/Catholic apologist, mistruster of secularism and someone who nevertheless fully acknowledges that people who don't share his religious beliefs, or who have nor religious beliefs at all, can still share (many of) his values and be decent people.

Angry gets shit done.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#256317: Oct 2nd 2018 at 9:19:53 AM

I don’t know if the “ignorant Americans” stereotype is fully accurate, since it’s often based on the way tourists act. Tourists pretty much act like that everywhere.

The US is a heavily globalized country, but I think the whole “America best” thing Swan mentioned gives those global interactions a touch of hostility, edging out cooperation.

They should have sent a poet.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#256318: Oct 2nd 2018 at 9:28:02 AM

As an American, I can confirm that the "ignorant American" stereotype is generally true. The reason for this is not a problem with Americans as a people, the reason is because our education system fucking sucks.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#256319: Oct 2nd 2018 at 9:34:05 AM

Potential bad news from New Jersey. Senator Menndez is only two points ahead of his Republican opponent. This is almost entirely due to corruption scandals.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/10/01/politics/menendez-hugin-new-jersey-senate-poll/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F

While I find it unlikely that the GOP could flip such a Blue state in a political environment like this, its still worrying.

Actually, that poll seems to be highly unreliable to the point of being possibly worthless due to major problems with its methodology.

The race is still likely to be close but that poll just isn't useful in determining how close.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#256320: Oct 2nd 2018 at 9:46:56 AM

[up]Thanks for that detail. The fact that NJ is even remotely in range for the GOP is still off putting though, and Mendenez doesn't exactly help at a time when political corruption (and calling it out) is in vogue. Frankly, it would have been better had a (reasonable) opponent primaried him.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
MrHellboy The Shadow from A world of my own Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Shadow
#256321: Oct 2nd 2018 at 9:48:07 AM

So... there's been a lot of up-and-down in terms of Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation. So many Hope Spots.

But now it looks like the Republicans are gonna vote him in no matter what. Even if he is found guilty of perjury or sexual misconduct. They are blatantly burying the evidence.

Can they get away with this? At this point, do you think Kavanaugh will be appointed? And what is the likelihood of him being impeached if he is?

The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#256322: Oct 2nd 2018 at 9:54:00 AM

Thanks for that detail. The fact that NJ is even remotely in range for the GOP is still off putting though, and Mendenez doesn't exactly help at a time when political corruption (and calling it out) is in vogue. Frankly, it would have been better had a (reasonable) opponent primaried him.

My pleasure.

But yeah the race is almost certainly dangerously close, if it weren't for his ethical issues it would likely be better.

But now it looks like the Republicans are gonna vote him in no matter what. Even if he is found guilty of perjury or sexual misconduct. They are blatantly burying the evidence.

Uh no, it doesn't, the investigation has been called and the confirmation delayed because they knew they didn't have the votes. There may be a high probability of him being confirmed but it's not guaranteed.

Can they get away with this? At this point, do you think Kavanaugh will be appointed? And what is the likelihood of him being impeached if he is?

It depends what you mean by "get away with this", appointing him could cause women to vote for the Democrats en masse which could do horrible things to their chances of holding the House and the Senate.

On impeachment... well no one can give you a strong answer right now. But it's worth pointing out that the Supreme Court may be facing image problems and he hasn't even been confirmed. If he ascends to the court anyway and blocks popular legislation... well it could get nasty and then who knows what could be on the table.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Oct 2nd 2018 at 12:54:09 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#256323: Oct 2nd 2018 at 10:02:34 AM

@archonspeaks My assessment is not just based on interaction with tourists, I have been to the US multiple times myself and it isn't even based on just my own point of view, other people, some of which have even lived in the US for a while, had the same impression.

One of the main point was the school system. A general observation was how easy the curses were, even for a foreigner.

And, as I said, I feel no ill will towards Americans. I just feel that the country needs reforms, like, yesterday. No country is perfect, but there is something deeply troubling about a country which poisonous its own population.

Edited by Swanpride on Oct 2nd 2018 at 10:03:36 AM

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#256324: Oct 2nd 2018 at 10:06:45 AM

About the Supreme Court... Part of me finds it incredibly strange that the Court itself cannot yay or nay a proposed new incumbent using its own criteria. One of them being "seek to keep political impartiality".

Sure, supply a list of names and give all of the potentials an interview grilling. But, ultimately, the Court really should be Court business in the end.

These are people who have to work with each other, after all.

I can't imagine many of them are all that thrilled right now to consider this bozo might well be a colleague in the none too distant future. He's not exactly covered himself in glory.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Oct 2nd 2018 at 6:07:52 PM

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#256325: Oct 2nd 2018 at 10:08:15 AM

[up][up] That the same can be said of most travelers and visitors is the salient point there.

I don’t think Americans are more ignorant or less informed than the average, there’s just a cultural propensity towards right-wing politics in the US. And yes, that is something that needs to be addressed.

[up] Justices being appointed and confirmed by the other two branches rather than the SC is an important check on their power.

Edited by archonspeaks on Oct 2nd 2018 at 10:10:17 AM

They should have sent a poet.

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