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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Comparing interpersonal dynamics to interstate dynamics is a rather dubious proposition at best, and not really on the topic of US politics in this instance.
@wisewillow: But of course. As nice as the lofty platitudes about "innocent until proven guilty" and "due process" sound, they are ignorant, often willfully so, about the ways in which such conventions are "gamed" to benefit those with power at the expense of their victims.
Edited by CaptainCapsase on Sep 28th 2018 at 9:48:50 AM
And as that thread points out, even women who don’t actively believe in patriarchy, who do not actively want to uphold abuse, are often still trained, by society, to put themselves in cages. I was no longer conservative when I went through all that. When it comes to academics, I am very strong-willed and aggressive and enthusiastic. But dating? It took me about five years to get out of the habit of being a compliant doormat more concerned about not hurting a man’s feelings than about my own consent.
I want to also encourage everyone to read through the thread wisewillow linked as well as the associated threads that get linked near the bottom of that thread.
Also, wiki-walking through the threads that the author of that thread links brought me to this tweet
, which I wanted to share with the group because it's awesome.
RE patriarchy tweet: ... That is horrifically insidious and a part of me is screaming "USE THE GODDAMN NUCLEAR OPTION ON THAT SHIT FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT'S GOOD AND HOLY!"
PS: I don't mean "nuclear option" literally.
Edited by MarqFJA on Sep 28th 2018 at 4:56:04 PM
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.I've been borderline obsessed with American Psycho recently (if my avatar didn't give it away), and one thing I'm starting to realize is how relevant it is today.
Patrick Bateman and all his identical cronies are homing in on the highest offices in the country.
No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!Damn, that thread is brutal. As I read it, I think back in my life at the things I've seen and done, and I can't ever think of a time when I consciously considered a woman to be less than I am. But I've still got biases, and sexist language, like "Hey, baby", is so utterly ingrained that I sometimes have a hard time noticing it in casual conversation, even as I try hard not to use it myself.
I was taught as a child to be considerate and chivalrous. Yes, I know that chivalry is patriarchal to a certain extent, but my wife (when we were first dating) used to tell her friends that I would hold doors for her and listen when she talked and other things that seemed surprising to them, like I was some kind of alien. "A guy who's decent and respectful to you? Get out of here!"
At home, she cooks and I do many of the chores. I clean dishes, vacuum, do laundry, shop for groceries, take out trash. It would never occur to me not to do these things. We're partners together, we both work, we both want to relax, and we're in this life together. I listen and offer sympathy when she has troubles and worries. I make fun of her when she asks me for help doing things she ought to be able to by herself, but she makes fun of me for being socially dense and not knowing about pop culture, so it's even.
But I know that so many people don't have these experiences, and it's deeply troubling. Have I participated in the patriarchy? Have I benefited just by being a man, by not having to worry about being taken seriously at work, not having to worry about being catcalled or groped or sexually harassed? My wife has had to worry about those things; she's told me about them!
Kavanaugh and his supporters represent everything that's wrong with gender and sexual power dynamics in our society.
Edited by Fighteer on Sep 28th 2018 at 10:13:38 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"By the way, isn't it fascinating how quickly the very same people who shouted #notallmen!!! have turned around to say "boys will be boys" and "all teenage boys do something like that" the instant it suited their purposes?
| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |Most of your post is fine IMO, but this part right here is something I take exception to. Men absolutely can (and do) get sexually harassed. I should know; it's happened to me.
Edited by TyeDyeWildebeest on Sep 28th 2018 at 10:23:50 AM
No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!That thread is important and I'm glad it's written. Thanks for sharing it.
Yo, Fighteer, that's the sort of relationship I want. Seems real nice.
But damn... I also think back on my life and how I've benefited. Really, the only way I differ from the male, white, cis, straight, brunette type is I'm an Aspie. And I've definitely benefited in ways I cannot understand or truly see. I do get grossed out when my sister, for instance, starts talking about her body and she uses that to make fun of me. I do claim that it doesn't bother me, though. I never tell her to stop. Maybe it's because she says it grosses me out that I think it grosses me out... I suppose this banter reveals something foolish within me. Just the other week, I was joking about how absurd conception is when you're blasted out of a penis. She joked along, pointing out that people only refer to the sperm while ignoring the egg, which I agreed with and made jokes about how the journey of an egg is relatively peaceful while a sperm's life is freaking hell. But as funny as that was I did start with the sperm rather than the egg. Mostly as a reference to Game Grumps when they talked about sperm and eggs during Sonic Forces. When you think about, conception is just a Fusion Dance.
When my sis says to me "I know this stuff grosses you out." I'll reassure her and talk to her about how I am trying to not be grossed out by female bodies because it's nature. I should also point out my sister is feminist.
A couple years ago, my sister and brother-in-law were arguing about the all female screenings for Wonder Woman. My bil felt it discriminatory to men, but my sister and myself pointed out how many men's clubs there were and how he was missing the point.
He's not a bad man, but he can be very misguided at times.
And I practice chivalry for everyone, holding doors and the like. Though I feel like I'm more conscious of that when I am doing that for women.
I must think more on my actions.
I also live in Britain, which has a lot of women's issues itself. It's... different from the US, but perhaps it's Not So Different as I'd like. I need to be more knowledgeable of the problems in my own country.
AND FUCK THE PEOPLE WHO DENY THE WAGE GAP THAT IRKS ME SO MUCH. Seriously, why do they get so defensive about stuff that's been proven time and time again?
EDIT: ![]()
Yeah, what happened to Terry Crews and the response is telling of how sexual power works and how society supports that. I will say I am very lucky to have never had anything of that nature happen to me. My mother did a lot to protect me as an Aspie child, I now understand.
Edited by PolarPhantom on Sep 28th 2018 at 3:31:21 PM
Men at least get defensive about it because it sort of implies that their struggles and accomplishments mean less. Like being told your life is, relatively speaking, on "Easy Mode".
We all kind of like to think of ourselves as the underdog in our own stories. Who the heck wants to admit that they are actually the privileged one?
Edited by M84 on Sep 28th 2018 at 10:31:42 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised... yes. You have. While Tye is absolutely right and men are victims of sexual harassment and assault, and those cases deserve more concern and support for male survivors, sexual harassment and assault are more pervasive for women.
Most men, prior to experiencing assault, do not walk around in constant fear of it. A lot of women do. I’ve had multiple times where I’ve been in a situation and wondered “am I about to be harassed? Assaulted? Is this going to be my rape?” I was diagnosed at 19 with a medical condition that would have made sex impossible without physical therapy. During the year of physical therapy, I was terrified that if someone tried to rape me, they’d either a) literally rip me open; b) get angry they couldn’t fit and beat or kill me; or c) they’d anally rape me instead. That was not a fun year.
Fortunately, I’ve been wrong most of those times, but the fear still changes how you experience day to day life.
something Annoying is that when you start remenbering to see if you did somethign sexist it can be tricky because a lot of context can be lost to you so you engage in this constant self gaslighting were thing were worst that it seen or not really that bad, I feel I have probably have said stuff to my girlfriend that it shoudnt because im male, I least I try to talk to her about all that stuff in order to get the better picture.
that helps, A LOT!.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"Yeah, I can relate. I've always had self-esteem issues, and whenever I'm feeling inadequate I try to remind myself of everything meaningful I've accomplished in my life.
But... aside from being Jewish and neurodivergent, my privilege score is pretty high. What if I'm really just a mediocre piece of garbage who had everything handed to him?
![]()
Okay, that's reassuring.
Edited by TyeDyeWildebeest on Sep 28th 2018 at 10:57:08 AM
No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!The All Men Are Perverts stereotype doesn’t help either. (And in fact is probably stemming from that.)
Edited by megaeliz on Sep 28th 2018 at 11:05:07 AM
Privilege makes things easier but unless it's very high amounts of privilege (like you're super wealthy or something) it's not going to override the requirement for hard work, so one can be aware of their privilege and still be proud of the work they've done and the things they've accomplished.
Just something I felt worth pointing out.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
maybe but is kinda there all the times, I mean I cant denied by any means that the reason Im going to graduate from a private university is because my parent have the money(I flung a lot of classes and I have to take it again) and a lot of pacient to care about my laziness.
is one of those thing that it kinda sore you over, specially since is about yourself.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

Standard abuser tactics. Convince their victim that they deserve the abuse and that they need the abuser. While also alienating the victim from their friends.
Edited by M84 on Sep 28th 2018 at 9:56:29 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised