TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#255376: Sep 23rd 2018 at 11:49:42 AM

never tell me the odds!

Same odds as Trump's means it's unlikely to happen,kinda disappointing if you ask me

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#255377: Sep 23rd 2018 at 11:50:34 AM

Unlikely but not necessarily slim to no chance.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#255378: Sep 23rd 2018 at 11:50:37 AM

[up][up]Given the Map in the Senate races, a 1 in 3 chance is damn good, actually.

Edited by 3of4 on Sep 23rd 2018 at 8:50:02 PM

"You can reply to this Message!"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#255379: Sep 23rd 2018 at 11:51:00 AM

We've known it was unlikely since the beginning. The point is that it's nowhere near as implausible as Tobias (and some others) make it out to be.

Edited by LSBK on Sep 23rd 2018 at 1:51:26 PM

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#255380: Sep 23rd 2018 at 12:04:45 PM

Nah progressives started it by trying to change things, if we still had slavery and women being second class citizens then there would be no culture war.

Which should tell you how righteous the culture war is.

Social Change has never been easy or quick, and always has it’s enemies. Anybody who says otherwise is selling something.

Edited by megaeliz on Sep 23rd 2018 at 3:08:57 PM

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#255381: Sep 23rd 2018 at 1:04:22 PM

On an unrelated note, I recently joined the Ben jealous campaign but I don't think I'm ready to actually go out and campaign, and now I don't know what to do.

i'm tired, my friend
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#255382: Sep 23rd 2018 at 1:13:17 PM

@Fighteer: I get where you're uncomfortable. If it had just been sexual harassment, I'd be on Kavanaugh's side (ugh, having to say that makes me feel icky). A teenager committing sexual harassment should be presumed to be a stupid teenager rather than a bad person; that's why you teach kids about consent, "No Means No" and keeping their hands to themselves. Attempted rape? Not the same thing.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#255383: Sep 23rd 2018 at 1:17:02 PM

[up][up]Do they need someone to work in the office, doing logistical work and making calls, etc?

@3of4, no kidding. In a more normal year, this kind of map could lead to the Republicans making a net gain of about 10 seats. Considering that now the predictions are giving them a gain of 1-3....

Edited by Rationalinsanity on Sep 23rd 2018 at 5:19:32 AM

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Voltron64 Since: Jul, 2016
#255384: Sep 23rd 2018 at 1:27:16 PM

[up][up] On the former, I’ve been there. God help me I have been there... sad

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#255385: Sep 23rd 2018 at 1:27:17 PM

no kidding. In a more normal year, this kind of map could lead to the Republicans making a net gain of about 10 seats. Considering that now the predictions are giving them a gain of 1-3...

Yeah it bears repeating that 1 in 3 odds in a historically bad map are incredible, if we can maintain a comparable level of enthusiasm for another election where the maps are more in our favor? It could be devastating.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 23rd 2018 at 4:29:49 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#255386: Sep 23rd 2018 at 1:29:27 PM

A teenager committing sexual harassment should be presumed to be a stupid teenager rather than a bad person; that's why you teach kids about consent, "No Means No" and keeping their hands to themselves.

I'm in two minds about this. I can tell you for a fact that sexual harassment committed by a 'stupid teenager' can have a lasting effect on the victim. The reason I can state that for a fact is because you've just given me a MeToo moment.

Now, this is what happened when I reported it to teachers (I found this out from a reliable source at a later date):

The deputy head (female) had taken him aside, sat him on her lap and gave him a brief 'taste of his own medicine'. She asked him if he understood now what it felt like.

Now, the lad never did anything like that again, but I personally think that it is both an absolutely horrific method of handling it and that he is therefore a MeToo victim as well.

And, for the record, learning this made me feel victimised all over again. This time by the teacher I'd been stupid enough to trust.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 23rd 2018 at 9:37:52 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#255387: Sep 23rd 2018 at 1:34:51 PM

I'm in two minds about this. I can tell you for a fact that sexual harassment committed by a 'stupid teenager' can have a lasting lifetime effect on the victim. The reason I can state that for a fact is because you've just given me a Me Too! moment.

Well said, I don't see any benefit to saying that sexual harassment would be excusable if they're younger. I'm male and yet I have never once considered sexual harassing anyone.

Now obviously that just means that I've been socialized correctly but the question should be of consequences and rehabilitation not "it's just a stupid teenager doing a minor sex crime", that tends to lead to apologism for attempted rape. After-all it's only a question of degrees.

The deputy head (female) had taken him aside, sat him on her lap and gave him a brief 'taste of his own medicine'. She asked him if he understood now what it felt like.

Now, the lad never did anything like that again, but I personally think that it is both an absolutely horrific method of handling it and that he is therefore a Me Too! victim as well.

Jesus, that's appalling.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 23rd 2018 at 4:34:39 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#255388: Sep 23rd 2018 at 1:39:09 PM

On an unrelated note, I recently joined the Ben jealous campaign but I don't think I'm ready to actually go out and campaign, and now I don't know what to do.

There’s plenty you can do beyond actully campaigning directly to people, if you can drive then just driving around other activists can help, you can help deliver things to other campaign sites (the amount of delivering leaflets to people that happens during a campaign is loads), even if you can’t drive you can deliver leaflets to houses in your local area, you can join teams of people delivering leaflets to houses.

There with be a campaign office somewhere near you, go in and explain what your limits are, assuming that they’re good people they will be happy to have you and will find some way for you to help.

I’m autistic and started on campaigns age 14 (maybe younger), there’s always stuff one can help with no matter ones preferences or limitations.

Personal story time, first time I did solo door knocking, got a “fuck off” a “I don’t vote” and a no answer, which as my mum commented about sums it up most of the time.

If anyone wants campaigning advise I’m more than happy to take P Ms from people, though I should warn you that my expeirance is in the UK not the US.

Edited by Silasw on Sep 23rd 2018 at 8:39:56 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#255389: Sep 23rd 2018 at 1:52:14 PM

Regarding Kavanaugh: at the risk of preaching to the choir, yes, we often do a lot of stupid things when we're young, but there are also degrees to this. From what I've read, Ford's account makes it seem like the assault was a pretty conscientious act of malice on Kavanaugh's part, and not just, say, him saying something misogynistic or misinterpreting cues. If you ask me, it goes a bit beyond "youthful idiocy" (not that it can't partly be the result of it, it's just not enough). I mean, I've done a lot of horrible things I'm not proud of in my life and used to hold some pretty misogynistic views, but I've never sexually assaulted anyone.

I could, theoretically, buy that Kavanaugh would eventually realize that what he did was wrong and that he is a different man now, but doing something that brazenly awful has to have consequences. And Kavanaugh doesn't appear to be a better man now, given that he refuses to acknowledge that it even happened.

Imca (Veteran)
#255390: Sep 23rd 2018 at 3:24:43 PM

I'm in two minds about this. I can tell you for a fact that sexual harassment committed by a 'stupid teenager' can have a lasting effect on the victim. The reason I can state that for a fact is because you've just given me a Me Too! moment.

For me its made me not have second thoughts about it at all, time doesn't heal wounds, and he has shown no efforts to repent....

It messes up victims for life, so why should time erase it for the perpetrators....

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#255391: Sep 23rd 2018 at 3:30:14 PM

@Wyldchyld: I'm sorry to read about what happened to you. I've been thinking lately about how lucky I am, as an Asperger's Syndrome sufferer, never to have something like that happen to me. I often don't know what to say in these situations, but I respect you greatly and hope that it has got better.

God I'm bad at this.

On another point, I've been arguing with a Communist on a Star Wars Discord about political compromise.

Um, yeah.

Now, this person is quite obstinate - and has some bizarre views about certain pop culture Well-Intentioned Extremist villains - , but I want to ask the people here about compromise. I am in favour of it, or rather, I would be willing to compromise with conservatives or other Liberals, but is this a mistake on my part? Am I naive? How far should I go, if at all? I know the gop don't compromise and that has worked out for them presently, so are they right?

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#255392: Sep 23rd 2018 at 3:35:12 PM

It's a case by case basis, anyone who gives any other answer is an idiot to blunt about it.

Oh really when?
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#255393: Sep 23rd 2018 at 3:43:10 PM

[up][up]You're fine. To be honest, I don't think most people know what to say in such situations. I certainly don't. I didn't mention the story to garner sympathy or pity but to make a point about why I'm in two minds about it. Sexual harassment isn't rape but it's not insignificant either. Repentance of the perpetrator is very important. Those that do their time, learn, repent, apologise and grow are one thing. Those that get away with it, don't learn or don't care are the bigger problem. How these things are handled after the event are as important as the actual event itself — that's what will help give people the opportunity to come to terms with it or instead make things so much worse. As they say, two wrongs don't make a right.

On the subject of working together, it should be very much a case-by-case basis. In an ideal world, everyone would work together, but we all know it's not an ideal world. Working out where your red lines are is important, but it's also important to recognise when your red lines are rational (stand your ground) or untenable (rethink or compromise).

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 23rd 2018 at 12:02:29 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#255394: Sep 23rd 2018 at 4:04:40 PM

@Polar Phantom: You can have compromise if the person or group you want to compromise with:

  1. Is willing to compromise.
  2. Is negotiating in good faith.
  3. Has a position or positions that you can accept.

Accelerationist communists can't be negotiated with because they want to watch the world burn to make way for their own revolutionary terror followed by utopia. Democratic communists (yes they exist, or at least they call themselves that while being democratic socialists)? Work with them.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#255395: Sep 23rd 2018 at 4:16:59 PM

[up] And 4. actually has enough clout to merit compromise.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#255396: Sep 23rd 2018 at 4:27:08 PM

[up][up] The person I was arguing with mentioned how every Liberal Democracy is fated to fall into Fascism. Or at least, that's my memory of it. I would have to go through tons of messages to find this stuff.

Anyway, thanks for the responses everyone.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#255397: Sep 23rd 2018 at 5:12:17 PM

That sounds wrong on so many levels, but it's a discussion better suited for this thread.

Also, all the most well known fascist states are now democracies. Let's see them twist their logic around that.

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#255399: Sep 23rd 2018 at 5:17:35 PM

A reminder that a 1/3 chance of victory in polls is the same odds Trump had.

This rhetoric is exactly what I'm talking about when I say that there is no Law of Cosmic Fairness. Seems like every day, someone brings this up as if it means something. As if Trump's victory is a sign that we are guaranteed an unlikely victory to correlate to his.

It does not. Trump's unlikely victory has no bearing on the Senate map whatsoever.

If the topic of conversation is whether or not we should go out and vote and try to get our guys in the Senate, the answer is yes. Of course. Absolutely.

But if we're talking about plans for 2019 and what we expect Washington to look like, it's not unreasonable to assume a red Senate just because "Trump won 2016". 1 in 3 isn't outright impossible, but it is unlikely. Trump's victory does not change that.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 23rd 2018 at 6:17:59 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#255400: Sep 23rd 2018 at 5:23:27 PM

No, people bring it up because people acted like 33% meant nothing then too, and it wasn't true, either.

It means it probably won't happen, but the fact remains that it easily can happen. I'm not sure what's hard to get about that.

Don't act like it's inevitable, but don't act like it's a super long shot like winning the lottery or getting struck by lightning either.


Total posts: 417,856
Top