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BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#254776: Sep 14th 2018 at 7:45:39 AM

more often then not the Supreme Court has been a tool of reactionaries and others who desire to obstruct progress.
Yes it has. But the fact still remains that it's one of the more trusted parts of our government, and if they shoot themselves in the P.R. foot, then that's going to hurt our democracy far more than it's going to hurt the court itself.
Can anyone explain exactly why this is for the Marines? Also, what about the Coast Guard? Or do even the people who survey the military not know they exist?
The Marines love Trump because their prime source of recruits is the same people who scream at Trump rallies and show up to run over libruls. The Coast Guard wasn't polled because they only asked the actual military.
but who could have written the secret letter?
It's very delayed delivery from Sen. Joe McCarthy.
Rumor has it that Mattis may be on his way out.
If he does, it'll be because he's not willing to piss away American military strength on Trump's every whim.
If trump wanted Mattis gone why didn't he dismiss him sooner?
Probably because, as an actual professional, he was one of the biggest people lending legitimacy to the administration.
There may be a suspicion of cyber attack over the explosions
... Does anyone think this is the next stage of Russiannote  interference? Block voters on an election day by literally blowing things up so that emergency response limits their ability to reach the polls?

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#254777: Sep 14th 2018 at 8:13:35 AM

[up]That would be a Die Hard level ploy, and I'm pretty sure if discovered would warrant a much harsher response than just sanctions or strongly worded admonishments.

Edited by danime91 on Sep 14th 2018 at 8:13:03 AM

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#254778: Sep 14th 2018 at 9:16:06 AM

More details about Manafort, most of the charges he still faces were dropped, he plead guilty to one charge of conspiracy and one charge of conspiracy tp obstruct justice, and is cooperating with the DOJ.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/14/politics/paul-manafort-guilty-plea/index.html

Nothing about Trump has been mentioned, but I suspect he has something of value if they let him off the hook on so many counts.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#254779: Sep 14th 2018 at 9:34:13 AM

We haven't had this in the thread in a while.

The Marines love Trump because their prime source of recruits is the same people who scream at Trump rallies and show up to run over libruls.

Also, it's part of how Marines are trained and indoctrinated. Their training emphasizes close-order drill and instant obedience (and every Marine is trained in that before anything else, because even the shit-cleaners are riflemen), and the mythos around the Corps tends to lead to extreme identification of the self with the group. Which is awesome for the kind of work they do, but it also means that you get groupthink, conformity and a lack of independent thought beyond what's necessary to accomplish the objective - in short, the Marines make the kind of people who are perfect Trump supporters.

Edited by Ramidel on Sep 14th 2018 at 8:42:13 AM

Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#254780: Sep 14th 2018 at 9:58:46 AM

[up][up] You know, even if the Russia investigation never gets to Trump himself, only the Stormy path gets that far the way I see it, I'll at least be happy that most of the people who propelled him to the presidency through dirty means will have gotten their comeuppance.

Life is unfair...
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#254781: Sep 14th 2018 at 10:03:28 AM

@Ramdiel: One thing my father (who served in the Army) noted is that the Marines seem to focus a lot on short-term and small picture plans as a result of their training. The Air Force, he claimed, was the other way around (and the Army in the middle).

Leviticus 19:34
Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#254782: Sep 14th 2018 at 10:44:37 AM

Trump wants to move forward with catastrophic China tariffs, despite offers for trade talks.

I guess any company that has an M&A deal that requires approval from China can kiss their deal goodbye.

Edited by Mario1995 on Sep 14th 2018 at 1:44:09 PM

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#254783: Sep 14th 2018 at 11:24:20 AM

To encourage voting, Samantha Bee has created an app to try and incentivize voting. My first thought (which I haven't downloaded yet) is if it will end up being the app version of Faux News, rather than a tool in encourage more involvement in politics.

Upon realizing that a staggering 54 percent of those who watch her show, Full Frontal, aren’t registered to vote, Samantha Bee decided to do something to entice her audience and others to get to the polls. And she did so in “the most 2018 way” possible: with an app. This Is Not a Game is, in fact, a game, consisting of daily political trivia challenges played live, HQ Trivia-style. It turns political awareness into a social activity with a cash prize incentive.

The idea, Bee said on Wednesday night, was born out of frustration with the current political climate and feeling forced to unload her frustration by hurling shoes, office supplies, and even a crossbow at her television. “I’m depressed, I’m out of ideas, and Americans never vote. And frankly they probably won’t unless we pay them,” says Bee. That’s when she had the lightbulb moment to turn midterm elections into a game. “I want to dangle a treat over America and be like, look, you could vote, you might win something.”

To make the idea a reality, Bee worked with gamification expert Gabe Zichermann, “civic tech expert” Adam Werbach, and Mark Pincus, the billionaire who created Farm Ville, among others. The concept is simple: The game promises to educate people about politics using Bee’s style of humor, offers the opportunity to earn some money, and, perhaps, will get people excited to go out and vote. While it’s too early to tell if the gaming app can actually increase voter turnout, we can at least get some laughs from it to avoid destroying our own T Vs. But there’s a catch, according to Bee: “Don’t tell Ted Cruz. I don’t want to have to give him money.”

Videos at the link, too.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#254784: Sep 14th 2018 at 11:29:14 AM

@Blue Ninja 0: Part of me can't help but think there's some potential evil applications for that, such as using it as a tool to subtly indoctrinate people into voting how you want them to. Thus, I ''obviously'' love it!

Leviticus 19:34
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#254785: Sep 14th 2018 at 11:50:07 AM

You know, even if the Russia investigation never gets to Trump himself, only the Stormy path gets that far the way I see it, I'll at least be happy that most of the people who propelled him to the presidency through dirty means will have gotten their comeuppance.

I won't. If it never reaches Trump, we'll have signed an awful lot of plea deals in exchange for useless info.

If you let the little fish go and don't catch the big fish, then what you're left with is nothing.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 14th 2018 at 12:50:01 PM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#254786: Sep 14th 2018 at 11:53:12 AM

Yes it has. But the fact still remains that it's one of the more trusted parts of our government, and if they shoot themselves in the P.R. foot, then that's going to hurt our democracy far more than it's going to hurt the court itself.

That's... a very good point.

But at the same time if they shut down popular potential programs like Single Payer (which has 70% support amongst the general public) then I think that would cause far more damage to our democracy then people no longer trusting the Supreme Court.

Which is why I've been so vehement about court packing, the Supreme Court is not worth throwing away any hint of public interest in our democracy.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#254787: Sep 14th 2018 at 12:32:36 PM

https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2018/09/14/day-603/

Day 603: Full cooperation.

1/ Paul Manafort pleaded guilty to conspiracy and agreed to fully cooperate with Robert Mueller. While the details about what kind of information Manafort agreed to provide the special counsel remain unclear, a judge asked Manafort, "You understand that you are agreeing to cooperate fully and truly" in the agreement? To which Manafort replied, "I do." Manafort also agreed to forfeit multiple properties and bank accounts, participate in interviews, provide documents, and testify. (ABC News / NBC News / Washington Post)

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/paul-manafort-plead-guilty-forfeit-assets-special-counsel/story?id=57823235

2/ Jared Kushner defended the eviction of the Palestine Liberation Organization from its Washington offices by insisting that punishing Palestinians would not affect the chances of a peace agreement between Israel and Palestine. "There were too many false realities that were created — that people worship — that I think needed to be changed," Kushner said during an interview. "All we’re doing is dealing with things as we see them and not being scared out of doing the right thing. I think, as a result, you have a much higher chance of actually achieving a real peace." (New York Times)

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/13/world/middleeast/kushner-palestinians-israel.html

3/ The secret letter about Brett Kavanaugh that Sen. Feinstein shared with federal investigators yesterday charges that a teenage Kavanaugh and a male friend trapped a teenage girl in a bedroom during a party and tried to assault her. According to the letter, Kavanaugh had been drinking at a party when he and his friend took the girl into a bedroom. Kavanaugh allegedly got on top of the girl and put his hand over her mouth as the music was turned up. The woman was reportedly able to exit the room before anything else happened. Kavanaugh denied the allegation. "I categorically and unequivocally deny this allegation," he said in a statement. "I did not do this back in high school or at any time." (New York Times / Associated Press)

https://apnews.com/ee8c3ce45bd5427a8830c6eb6ff42e1f

4/ Retired Adm. Bill Mc Raven resigned from the Pentagon's Defense Innovation Board late last month, days after criticizing Trump for revoking John Brennan's security clearance. "I can confirm that Admiral (ret) William H. Mc Raven resigned from the Defense Innovation Board, effective August 20, 2018," said a Pentagon spokesperson. "The Department appreciates his service and contribution on the board." (ABC News)

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bin-laden-raid-commander-resigns-pentagon-board-criticizing/story?id=57817765

Notables.

Gov. Andrew Cuomo defeated Cynthia Nixon and clinched the Democratic gubernatorial nomination by a margin of 30 percentage points. Cuomo spent nearly $25 million to defeat Nixon in the primary. (New York Times)

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/13/nyregion/andrew-cuomo-cynthia-nixon-wins-governors-race.html

New York voters voted against six of the eight incumbent Democratic state senators. The incumbents outspent their challengers several times over during the race. (New York Times)

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/13/nyregion/state-senate-election-results-idc-klein.html

Bob Woodward says he'll release audio tapes of his interviews if sources ask him to. Woodward says he has "boxes of recordings and documents" that prove how thorough he was with the sourcing for his book. (The Hill)

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/406682-woodward-ill-release-tapes-of-book-interviews-if-source-asks-me-to

AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#254788: Sep 14th 2018 at 1:01:28 PM

[up][up] I'm not so sure court-packing is in anyway viable. Americans will (unfortunately correctly) recognize it as a power grab, and moderate Democrats would vote against it in any case. FDR wasn't able to get away with it in the height of his popularity.

Moreover, if the court is packed, there will be no way to prevent the Republicans from doing the same thing.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#254789: Sep 14th 2018 at 1:20:32 PM

@Tobias: I've resigned myself to the fact that Trump is the teflon president until 2020. I believe Mueller will score many of his close allies, but find nothing directly linking Trump to russian officials' meddling. Better to be pleasantly surprised than disappointed.

Life is unfair...
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#254790: Sep 14th 2018 at 1:57:07 PM

Understandable, but if all of those close allies take plea deals and walk away with a slap on the wrist while Trump continues to evade apprehension, then what has all of this investigating actually accomplished?

Mind you, I'm not upset about Manafort's plea bargain. I'm very hopeful for what charges the investigation will be able to bring with his cooperation and against whom. I'm just saying, plea deals are always a gamble towards snagging someone higher in the chain, which is why I can't agree with the logic that it's fine to nab all the smaller fish and not get Trump himself.

If all the small fish get plea deals and the big fish aren't caught, then the casino wins, so to speak. The case closes with no real punishment for anybody. That's not an outcome I can support. I want the big fish.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 14th 2018 at 2:57:30 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#254791: Sep 14th 2018 at 2:10:35 PM

[up][up][up]Yes there is. It's called having a packed court which would allow us to pass so many laws and regulations to ensure Republicans can never regain power.

Edited by danime91 on Sep 14th 2018 at 2:10:05 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#254792: Sep 14th 2018 at 2:30:13 PM

I'm not so sure court-packing is in anyway viable. Americans will (unfortunately correctly) recognize it as a power grab, and moderate Democrats would vote against it in any case. FDR wasn't able to get away with it in the height of his popularity.

This is a questionable assumption, 70% Americans support Medicare for All. What exactly do you think will happen if a Democratic Congress tries to pass it but a reactionary Supreme Court declares it unconstitutional?

Because I really don't see any reason to assume that Americans would think that it's a power grab, it's just as likely if not more that they would view it as a necessary action to promote democracy against a undemocratic body.

Moreover, if the court is packed, there will be no way to prevent the Republicans from doing the same thing.

False.

If we have a friendly court we could tear down the things like voter suppression that allows their minority rule and thus even if they get the power to pack the court with all of that they could very well fear the consequences of the public seeing them push through unpopular legislation.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#254793: Sep 14th 2018 at 2:36:19 PM

[up][up] That...uh...your solution to dealing with the Republicans...is to pack a panel of judges and pass laws to prevent them from taking power?

Like, I hate to break it to you, but that isn't how a Democracy works. That's like, blatantly dictatorial and the type of thing everyone's been criticizing the Republicans for.

Ideally they will slide into irrelevance as more popular Democratic policy is passed and bigotry is fought back against, but you're going to be seen as a tin-pot dictator if you outright ban the opposition.

[up] If there is sufficient public support for court-packing, it may very well happen. But otherwise, I don't think that's going to go the way you think. You'd basically be seen as attacking one of the three branches of Government everyone gets drilled into their head all through childhood.

Edited by AzurePaladin on Sep 14th 2018 at 5:39:39 AM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#254794: Sep 14th 2018 at 2:46:03 PM

Eh, if Trump isn't gotten and his network of cronies is gotten, those cooperation actions and plea deals got them all to turn on each other. It's not just Trump they're working against after all.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#254795: Sep 14th 2018 at 2:52:07 PM

If there is sufficient public support for court-packing, it may very well happen. But otherwise, I don't think that's going to go the way you think. You'd basically be seen as attacking one of the three branches of Government everyone gets drilled into their head all through childhood.

Don't misunderstand me, I realize that court packing is an extraordinary act that will require extraordinary pretext.

My position is simply that it will be necessary to escape the current toxic status-quo and stop further damage to our democracy.

That...uh...your solution to dealing with the Republicans...is to pack a panel of judges and pass laws to prevent them from taking power?

As someone who supports court packing I couldn't agree more, stopping the Republicans from ever gaining power should not be our reasons for doing it. That would almost certainly single the end of our democracy if both parties oppose it.

Ideally they will slide into irrelevance as more popular Democratic policy is passed and bigotry is fought back against, but you're going to be seen as a tin-pot dictator if you outright ban the opposition.

The problem with this is that such progress has no reason to happen if a hostile Supreme Court strikes down attempts to attack voter suppression or worse actually defends Republican attempts for even more extreme voter suppression.

I'm not saying I support their position, I don't. Rather it's just a mistake to overlook the fact that the Supreme Court can cause very real damage to progress.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 14th 2018 at 5:54:33 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#254796: Sep 14th 2018 at 3:01:17 PM

[up] I sincerely hope you're wrong and there's another way...I'm aware of the flaws of the court, but I'm not convinced that trying to pack it won't simply backfire. Nor do I really want to be around if "pretext" happens big enough to justify to a majority of people to agree to pack it.

And in an era where Democracy is at stake, I'd really rather not open Pandora's box unless ABSOLUTELY necessary to preserve Democracy...

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#254797: Sep 14th 2018 at 3:02:44 PM

2/ Jared Kushner defended the eviction of the Palestine Liberation Organization from its Washington offices by insisting that punishing Palestinians would not affect the chances of a peace agreement between Israel and Palestine. "There were too many false realities that were created — that people worship — that I think needed to be changed," Kushner said during an interview. "All we’re doing is dealing with things as we see them and not being scared out of doing the right thing. I think, as a result, you have a much higher chance of actually achieving a real peace." (New York Times)

A reminder that Jared Kushner has a lot of ties to shady links Israeli business tycoons with close ties to Putin, including, Lev Leviev, a diamond tycoon, who helps fund settlements in the west bank, and who's diamond mines are connected to gross human rights violations in African countries like Angola.

One Dutch Media outlet did a really good documentary on that actually.

Edited by megaeliz on Sep 14th 2018 at 6:07:11 AM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#254798: Sep 14th 2018 at 3:03:34 PM

Just like to remind everyone of the existence of the Dred Scott decision, Plessy versus Ferguson, and the Korematsu decision. Not to mention stuff like Citizens United.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#254799: Sep 14th 2018 at 3:09:29 PM

Just like to remind everyone of the existence of the Dred Scott decision, Plessy versus Ferguson, and the Korematsu decision. Not to mention stuff like Citizens United.

Exactly this, the Supreme Court is not our friend and we should not expect that they will not do poorly thought out and destructive decisions. Because they totally have and likely will do so again.

There's a wonderful article on The Nation about this very subject, Democrats must stop pretending the Supreme Court is apolitical.

Essentially it's about how despite the fact that the general public and Democrats think that the Supreme Court is moderate and apolitical in actuality it's heavily biased, and it's bias is not equal. For decades it has been biased in favor of Conservatism and the selection of Gorsuch and Kavanaugh is merely that trend's apotheosis.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 14th 2018 at 6:10:10 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#254800: Sep 14th 2018 at 3:15:40 PM

[up][up], [up] I believe I am misunderstood. I am not fighting for the Supreme Court's honor. I actually agree with all that. However, as you pointed out, most people see it as apolitical. I am concerned such a move will backfire, not that it is inherently a bad thing (I'd argue that having any number of unelected officials get to decide what counts as legit or not is the actual bad system). You do realize that most people, barring extraordinary circumstances, are going to react poorly, right?

TL:DR I'm arguing that there are going to be unintended consequences, not that 9 unelected people in a room could or should get to decide what is acceptable

Edited by AzurePaladin on Sep 14th 2018 at 6:16:47 AM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer

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