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AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#254751: Sep 13th 2018 at 9:30:56 PM

[up] I'm aware of California's history of celebrity-Governors. But the issue is, as shown above, there are times he genuinely isn't that much different. And Nixon may not have experience, but all the people with experience (ie the ones elected in earlier years) don't necessarily line up with the agenda some activists want. Their entire schtick is "Change NOW!", appealing to "wait until you have experience" is just pouring fuel on the flame.

Now, its a bit unfair to call him a DINO, and I won't deny that he's done some good things (He signed the law legalizing same-sex marriage in NY, after all). That doesn't change the fact that his campaign did some shady things.

Edit: This is a worse pagetopper...

Edited by AzurePaladin on Sep 13th 2018 at 12:30:52 PM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#254752: Sep 13th 2018 at 9:35:34 PM

If they are sincere about promoting change, then they should try running for more local offices first or the House of Reps — which a lot of progressive candidates have done.

Don't go straight for the Governor's seat. And if one does insist on doing that...don't resort to bullshit like saying "the governor is a Republican!" They are supposed to be above that as progressive candidates. After all, the whole point of their campaigns is to change US politics, as you stated.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Alycus Since: Apr, 2018
#254753: Sep 13th 2018 at 9:40:27 PM

Isn't Cuomo partly or even wholly responsible for the NYC subway issues? That's probably the main concern I'd have towards him.

AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#254754: Sep 13th 2018 at 9:42:08 PM

[up] [up]That's the point I was trying to make. You are meeting "We want change RIGHT NOW!" with "Wait a few years, build up first." Which is anathema to the point of reshaping politics "RIGHT NOW! (Tradesnark™ optional)". Moreover, this is not the first progressive challenger Cuomo has faced. Teachout ran in 2014, so obviously this didn't come out of nowhere.

And as you said, a bunch are running for House and such. Ocasio-Cortez, for instance.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree for now. I've got stuff to do. Good talk, everyone!

Edited by AzurePaladin on Sep 13th 2018 at 12:42:28 PM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#254755: Sep 13th 2018 at 9:46:42 PM

The chief of staff seems more appropriate, as they run the White House day to day and the White House runs the week to week functions of the rest of the executive branch.
Yeah, that makes sense.

BTW, just for the record, the White House Chief of Staff simultaneously heads the Executive Office of the President of the United States as well as the White House Office, which itself is an agency of the aforementioned Executive Office of the POTUS.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#254756: Sep 13th 2018 at 9:49:38 PM

[up][up]Not so much "build up a few years" as "prove you can handle this sort of job without fucking things up when the stakes are lower". Though it does indeed come with the bonus of being able to to build connections that can increase one's odds when running for a higher office. Now maybe the people pushing for CHANGE RIGHT NOW dislike that...but it's an unavoidable part of politics. Networking is important.

Edited by M84 on Sep 14th 2018 at 12:49:23 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#254757: Sep 13th 2018 at 9:50:38 PM

I mean, considering this happened, I don't even remotely feel bad for him. 'DINO' is not in the slightest the worst insult that she could have used.

(For context: The state Democratic Party circulated a leaflet days before the election alleging Nixon did a bunch of anti-semetic things that she never did)

Worth a further note: Nixon's partner is Jewish, (and lost a good chunk of her family to the Holocaust) they both attend synagogue, and are raising two kids as Jews. Falsely accusing her of being down with the alt-right did not go over in NYC.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#254758: Sep 13th 2018 at 9:52:18 PM

Yeah, that was definitely a low blow, no question about that.

It's also the kind of fuck up an experienced politician should not be making. And if, as Cuomo claims, he wasn't aware of it...he should have been. Either he personally fucked up or he is so out of the loop when it comes to running his own campaign apparatus that this sort of thing slips by him. Either is not good.

Stuff like this wouldn't exactly fill me with confidence if he somehow ends up being the 2020 candidate. I'll still vote for him of course, but still.

Edited by M84 on Sep 14th 2018 at 12:54:39 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#254759: Sep 13th 2018 at 9:55:52 PM

Running for a legislative seat with no experience, especially the House and equivalent bodies, is a lot different than going for top executive positions. Governor and President should not be entry level positions.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#254760: Sep 13th 2018 at 9:58:14 PM

[up]Yep. One can represent and vote on behalf of a district of people with little or no experience and not do an awful job.

The same really cannot be said for a high level executive position like Governor or President.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#254761: Sep 13th 2018 at 10:30:07 PM

Yeah, that was definitely a low blow, no question about that.

It's also the kind of fuck up an experienced politician should not be making. And if, as Cuomo claims, he wasn't aware of it...he should have been. Either he personally fucked up or he is so out of the loop when it comes to running his own campaign apparatus that this sort of thing slips by him. Either is not good.

Cuomo is an absolutely notorious micromanager. He keeps trying to get out of scandals by claiming ignorance, (in addition to this one, there's the issue of several of his aides having been arrested for corruption) but nobody who pays attention to state politics buys it.

Cuomo has legitimately accomplished a pretty fair amount, (it hurts to type those words as I have an intense dislike of the man) but the main reason why experienced state democrats have been reluctant to challenge him is because he's a deeply petty and vengeful prick who is viciously protective of his sphere of power, and nobody wanted to risk his wrath while knowing that Cuomo would have a huge advantage in name recognition and campaign funding over them. (This is a guy who if he hears a local Democratic politician say something he dislikes, by the next morning Cuomo has something negative about them in the local press. Sometimes he then uses whatever idea or position from that politician and claims it as his own, as he did with the higher minimum wage.)

Despite the shadiness of his support for both Republicans in the state senate and the IDC, Cuomo probably doesn't deserve the label DINO, and I say that despite the bitter memory of Cuomo being a smug prick during the 2014 elections and wagging his finger at Democrat losses nationwide and essentially saying "This is what you get for being too left-wing". Despite that, socially and on rare occasions economically, he's been strong on the left.

He does deserve to be called despicable, however. I'll put up with Cuomo over just about any Republican I can think of, but I'm more inclined to spit on the man than shake his hand.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#254762: Sep 13th 2018 at 10:34:03 PM

And as awful as he is, it is indeed unfair to call him a DINO. Especially considering what recent and present-day Republican Governors are doing. Le Page, Kobach, etc.

Republicans have set the bar pretty low.

Edited by M84 on Sep 14th 2018 at 1:34:20 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#254763: Sep 14th 2018 at 1:58:05 AM

As I was told before on this issue, at least Reagan had union experience before becoming governor, but Cynthia Nixon did not. I am very wary of people nowadays who use their inexperience as a selling point and spend most of the campaign running on insulting the opponent.

Life is unfair...
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#254764: Sep 14th 2018 at 2:03:43 AM

Politics is probably the only field of work where having experience is counted against you. :/

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#254765: Sep 14th 2018 at 2:06:37 AM

Given the sheer corruption of the Republican party, are we really wrong to count any experience with them as a good thing?

What good comes from a man working for Mitch Mc Connell?

Experience is good—except literally half of the parties in America are displaying gross criminal behavior as a daily attitude.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Sep 14th 2018 at 2:06:31 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#254766: Sep 14th 2018 at 2:14:16 AM

You still learn the ropes of politics by being in the republican party, so you sorta know how govermental work gets done by the time you get into office. That is not a negative thing. Whether you support him or not, Mitch Mc Connell is a cunning politician.

Life is unfair...
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#254767: Sep 14th 2018 at 3:58:26 AM

Their entire schtick is "Change NOW!"...

And that's the problem. We can't get change "NOW", because that's not how change happens. The capital "P" Progressive movement/Berniecrats/Justice Democrats/etc. act like Democrats can just snap their fingers and fix America, but they just won't for some reason, and tell voters that if you elect them, you'll have free college and legal Mary Jane the next day. That's not how politics work - at least not when your aim is to fix things that are broken. Politics is inherently slow, and trying to create change NOWNOWNOW is like trying to blitz your way through rush hour traffic: you're most likely not going to get anywhere.

Yes, we can create change faster than usual, but it's not like you just blink and "Oh look, I have universal healthcare now" like these candidates seem to think.

Given the sheer corruption of the Republican party, are we really wrong to count any experience with them as a good thing?

What good comes from a man working for Mitch Mc Connell?

Experience is good—except literally half of the parties in America are displaying gross criminal behavior as a daily attitude.

...so experienced politicians are bad because the reactionary party has experienced politicians?

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Sep 14th 2018 at 7:02:01 AM

i'm tired, my friend
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#254768: Sep 14th 2018 at 4:52:58 AM

Yeah, that makes sense. BTW, just for the record, the White House Chief of Staff simultaneously heads the Executive Office of the President of the United States as well as the White House Office, which itself is an agency of the aforementioned Executive Office of the POTUS.

Surprisingly, the Chief of Staff doesn’t have as much power as he sounds like he’d have. His primary role is that of a gatekeeper, since he makes the president’s schedule.

They should have sent a poet.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#254769: Sep 14th 2018 at 5:10:34 AM

Florence has made landfall on Wrightsville Beach NC, as a Category 1 hurricane.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#254770: Sep 14th 2018 at 5:55:10 AM

Re: Cynthia Nixon. She has good ideology and not much else. Having no experience in government whatsoever while running for the top job in Amerca's most important state is not laudable. It's not her intended policy that's going too quickly, but her methodology. Going to Albany with no experience and no established power base is a losing proposition. She did the best thing she could have. By losing, but whipping up the base, she forced concessions out of Cuomo while scaring him into an attritional spending campaign for an election he was never going to lose. And the real scum, the IDC, has been fucking destroyed, so Cuomo's court intrigue won't work so well anymore.

Everyone wants change, but running celebrity vanity campaigns for state houses isn't how it's going to happen. Hannibal might be at the gates, but what beat him then wasn't flashy conquest, but a slow campaign of steady victories and strategic positioning. There's nothing wrong with going slowly — if Cynthia Nixon wants to be in government, she should run for U.S. Representative, get her name out there and her feet wet sponsoring and writing bills. t's easy to see calls for a candidate to get experience as them being shunted away by the establishment, but there's also an element of simply not wanting a Pointy-Haired Boss in a governor's mansion.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#254771: Sep 14th 2018 at 6:31:24 AM

Re: Cynthia Nixon. She has good ideology and not much else. Having no experience in government whatsoever while running for the top job in Amerca's most important state is not laudable. It's not her intended policy that's going too quickly, but her methodology. Going to Albany with no experience and no established power base is a losing proposition. She did the best thing she could have. By losing, but whipping up the base, she forced concessions out of Cuomo while scaring him into an attritional spending campaign for an election he was never going to lose. And the real scum, the IDC, has been fucking destroyed, so Cuomo's court intrigue won't work so well anymore.

Everyone wants change, but running celebrity vanity campaigns for state houses isn't how it's going to happen. Hannibal might be at the gates, but what beat him then wasn't flashy conquest, but a slow campaign of steady victories and strategic positioning. There's nothing wrong with going slowly — if Cynthia Nixon wants to be in government, she should run for U.S. Representative, get her name out there and her feet wet sponsoring and writing bills. t's easy to see calls for a candidate to get experience as them being shunted away by the establishment, but there's also an element of simply not wanting a Pointy-Haired Boss in a governor's mansion.

[awesome] Well said.

I don't like Cuomo but I dislike populist vanity campaigns even more, I think this is the best possible result in that she lost and made Cuomo sweat some. People who lack such experience have no place aiming for such high office, if she was really serious about becoming an officeholder then she should've aimed for a lower office and built experience alongside a rep.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#254772: Sep 14th 2018 at 6:50:07 AM

Manafort will plead guilty to the charges he faces in his 2nd trial. No news on what the deal entails yet.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/14/politics/paul-manafort-guilty-plea/index.html

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#254773: Sep 14th 2018 at 6:52:24 AM

Manafort will plead guilty to the charges he faces in his 2nd trial. No news on what the deal entails yet.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/14/politics/paul-manafort-guilty-plea/index.html

I actually posted this a page or two ago, I suppose no one noticed tongue

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#254774: Sep 14th 2018 at 7:23:49 AM

[up][up][up][up][up][up][up] I think you misunderstood. I was not passing judgement I am aware it takes more than a snap of the fingers to get things done, I was saying that telling the "Change Now!" crowd "You need experience first, go away until you get some" is not going to heal any divide or actually get them to wait, and will merely fuel the flames of "they're (take your pick of boogeymen) out to stop us!" In other words: telling people whose shtick is being fed up with patience to be patient is not going to work, regardless if you're right or not.

[up][up], [up] Good, I think. It's going to depend on what kinda deal he gets.

[down][awesome]

Edited by AzurePaladin on Sep 14th 2018 at 10:32:27 AM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#254775: Sep 14th 2018 at 7:30:01 AM

We rolled Manafort?

grin This is the best morning I've had in a while.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 14th 2018 at 8:32:22 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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