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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#254276: Sep 7th 2018 at 12:48:52 PM

If Trump costs the GOP control of Congress, they won't have a say in booting him; it'll be up to the Democrats to start impeachment proceedings. That said, the White House may invoke the 25th Amendment in that case.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#254277: Sep 7th 2018 at 12:50:55 PM

As a desperate face saving measure?

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#254278: Sep 7th 2018 at 12:50:57 PM

I think Trump is the only reason the Republicans have any seats left at this point. Trump is what Republican voters want.

If they boot him, they're finished.

Funnily, I hated a lot of Hillary's military policies but didn't think or Obama went far enough in Syria.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Sep 7th 2018 at 12:52:39 PM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#254279: Sep 7th 2018 at 12:53:22 PM

Trump represents a major reason that they're likely going to be butchered this midterms and why the next dominant electoral group (Millennials) have a rather negative view of their party.

Thus while I'm sure many of them believe that that doesn't make it so, it's very plausible that Trump is exactly what could cause unimaginable electoral damage for them in the long run.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#254280: Sep 7th 2018 at 12:55:12 PM

I think the problem with that line of thinking is that Trump isn't why people hate Republicans among younger voters. It's the "shot in the face" versus "shot in the nuts" argument. The Republicans hate social assistance, debt relief, drug relaxation, and an end to the culture war.

Some of them like Trump's insanity and hatred of brown people.

Without trump, they still have all the other things that cause people to loathe them.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
tsstevens Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did from Reading tropes such as Righting Great Wrongs Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did
#254281: Sep 7th 2018 at 12:55:38 PM

A sexist, racist homophobic dictator who believes women are to stay in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant, cheers minority deaths and for all we know is looking to change the pledge of allegiance to, "One Nation Under Me."

Currently reading up My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#254282: Sep 7th 2018 at 12:58:14 PM

A lot of Republican voters are totally okay with all of those things. Others simply ignore them or claim that they're lies.

Edited by Fighteer on Sep 7th 2018 at 3:58:05 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#254283: Sep 7th 2018 at 12:58:49 PM

A sexist, racist homophobic dictator who believes women are to stay in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant, cheers minority deaths and for all we know is looking to change the pledge of allegiance to, "One Nation Under Me."

Yes, I genuinely believe there are the values the Republicans appeal to and they're angry that the dogwhistles are being replaced with bullhorns. The problem is the Republicans lies aren't fooling either the people who hate racism and oligarchy OR the people who are all for it.

My belief is the Republican Party as is, is doomed but can't move from Trump. He's all they have left.

The Grand Moffs are finding there's no Empire without Palpatine.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Sep 7th 2018 at 1:02:42 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
tsstevens Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did from Reading tropes such as Righting Great Wrongs Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did
#254284: Sep 7th 2018 at 1:01:21 PM

Why do you think there is some traction at raging over things like women and minorities in media? What I'm not entirely sure about is why this is not such an issue under Bush or Reagan. Just how many I wonder are simply 4Chan and Encyclopedia Dramatica trolls and see Trump as their champion.

Currently reading up My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#254285: Sep 7th 2018 at 1:03:43 PM

I think the problem with that line of thinking is that Trump isn't why people hate Republicans among younger voters. It's the "shot in the face" versus "shot in the nuts" argument. The Republicans hate social assistance, debt relief, drug relaxation, and an end to the culture war.

Some of them like Trump's insanity and hatred of brown people.

Without trump, they still have all the other things that cause people to loathe them.

Excuse me? You don't think that Trump the historically unpopular and controversial plays a role in younger people rejecting the Republican Party?

Furthermore I specifically that what Trump represents is going to hurt them badly, thus it's not that without the man they would be fine but rather that they have him because of the things that make people loath them.

So my point stands. They stay with Trump because they're some combination of cowardly, myopic, and ideological.

If they were rational about it they would wait for the Mueller investigation to find something damning then remove Trump, sure their base would likely be enraged but it's better the pain now which allows them to possibly recover later then for things to get beyond recovery.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 7th 2018 at 4:03:23 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#254286: Sep 7th 2018 at 1:04:19 PM

Obama gives a speech at the University of Illinois and I'll be damned if it isn't the most uplifting and motivational speech I've heard in years.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#254287: Sep 7th 2018 at 1:16:07 PM

[up][up] I suspect that the argument is that mileniams have already been driven from the Republican Party before Trump turned up.

It’s like when you discover something horrible about an unethical company you don’t buy from, Sure I’m horrified, but I can’t boycott because I already don’t buy their shit.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#254288: Sep 7th 2018 at 1:18:21 PM

[up]I know.

My point is that ditching Trump could be the first step on salvaging the situation for them, sure a fall may be inevitable but that doesn't mean all falls are the same.

Thus rationally if I were in their shoes I would rather help remove Trump and possibly salvage the party in the long run then go down with him.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
tsstevens Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did from Reading tropes such as Righting Great Wrongs Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did
#254289: Sep 7th 2018 at 1:24:55 PM

[awesome] I think David Palmer really hit the nail on the head in saying the Republicans sought to block everything out of spite, if the opposition support it then they had to be against it. I've seen this in my local government, an example being plans to build a pulp mill and the opposition against it were so ardent and so vicious to the point of environmentalists cheering forestry workers losing their jobs, that some including me wanted the mill built to upset them. And we are seeing the same thing in American politics. The idea of equality, not setting out to harm others, that police shooting unarmed innocent black people in the back is a bad thing, these should be common sense worthy goals to anyone. But because they are seen as Liberal ideals some Republicans see that racist college video as the greatest thing ever, that women should not be in films or games, that when Trump said he did a great job with the Purito Rico crisis they see the great job as the thousands of natives killed. To me some Republicans would rather destroy themselves than side with the opposition even if the opposition have worthwhile ideas.

Currently reading up My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#254290: Sep 7th 2018 at 1:27:43 PM

[up]It's exactly this.

Republicans have taken "owning the libs" as a positive moral value on its own and thus anything that offends the Left must be good. Hence why we have Donald Trump and that stupid practice of intentionally causing air pollution.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#254291: Sep 7th 2018 at 1:34:10 PM

I don't think there's any salvaging the situation for the Republicans. Again, the people who would vote for them are Trump's supporters. It's why they lost the election to Trump in the first place.

If they fired him/overthrew him, who would support him?

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#254292: Sep 7th 2018 at 1:37:02 PM

[up]Republican voter changed their positions overnight due to partisan loyalty, it would be a mistake to view the relationship between the voters and the establishment as one way in favor of the voters. Both sides influence the others.

Yes ditching Trump would probably lose them the next Presidential election but in the long run it could allow them to moderate and adopt more politically viable policy planks, because those Republican voters who are currently so important? They're aging out and thus when looking at the long run should not be seen as some kind of fixture.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 7th 2018 at 4:36:47 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#254293: Sep 7th 2018 at 2:05:39 PM

https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2018/09/07/day-596/

Day 596: Your fault.

1/ Trump called on Jeff Sessions and the Justice Department to investigate and uncover the author of the anonymous op-ed that described an effort by members of the administration to subvert his agenda. "Jeff should be investigating who the author of that piece was because I really believe it's national security," Trump told reporters aboard Air Force One. He added that he's also "looking at" possible legal action against The New York Times, though he did not elaborate. (ABC News / NBC News / CNBC / CNN / New York Times)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/07/politics/donald-trump-jeff-sessions-investigation/index.html

2/ Trump tried to refute the quotes in Bob Woodword's new book, claiming "I don't talk the way I am quoted" in Fear: Trump in the White House. "The Woodward book is a scam," Trump tweeted at 5:30am, claiming the "quotes are made up" because "I would not have been elected President" if they were true. Trump also denied that he called Sessions "mentally retarded" or a "dumb Southerner," as the book reports. However, Trump is on record calling somebody "retarded" on a Howard Stern episode in 2004, and a former deputy editor at the New York Post said Trump once described his in-laws as "an entourage of dumb Southerners." (New York Times / Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/i-dont-talk-the-way-i-am-quoted-trump-offers-fresh-criticism-of-woodward-book/2018/09/07/29d215ce-b292-11e8-9a6a-565d92a3585d_story.html?utm_term=.efdfb63c3869

3/ Trump will not answer Robert Mueller's questions about obstruction of justice, according to Rudy Giuliani. "That's a no-go. That is not going to happen," Trump's lawyer said. "There will be no questions at all on obstruction," whether in person or in writing. (Associated Press)

https://apnews.com/fd82c9d1dab7431db1635d9473c3d30e

4/ Hours later Giuliani walked back the comments, saying te possibility of answering questions about obstruction of justice are "not ruled in or out." One person with direct knowledge of Trump's legal strategy said "there is no strategy" aside from PR tactics of threatening Mueller. If negotiations break down, Mueller could be forced to subpoena Trump to testify. Giuliani previously said they would fight any subpoena to the Supreme Court, which has never definitively ruled on the question of whether a president can be forced to testify. (NBC News / Axios / Reuters)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia/mueller-hardens-stance-on-trump-interview-in-russia-probe-giuliani-says-idUSKCN1LN01W

5/ Elizabeth Warren called on White House officials to invoke the 25th Amendment and begin the process of removing Trump from office. "If senior administration officials think the President of the United States is not able to do his job," Warren said, "then they should invoke the 25th Amendment." Warren's comments come a day after an op-ed by an anonymous senior administration official who attacked Trump's "amorality" and "anti-democratic" policies, saying staff is "thwarting" Trump's "misguided impulses" and "worst inclinations." (CNN)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/06/politics/elizabeth-warren-25th-amendment/index.html

6/ Trump told his supporters it'll be "your fault" if he gets impeached. During a rally in Montana, Trump told supporters that they "aren't just voting for a candidate, you are voting for which party controls Congress." He then brought up "the impeachment word" and said "you didn't go out to vote – that's the only way it could happen." (CNN)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/06/politics/trump-impeach-your-fault/index.html

7/ Obama called Trump a "threat to democracy," while accusing Trump and his Republican supporters of practicing "politics of fear and resentment" during a speech at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. He added that the "resistance" within the administration is not the right way to stop the "crazy stuff" coming out of the White House. He blamed Republicans in Congress for being "utterly unwilling to find the backbone to safeguard the institutions that make our democracy work" and that Republicans "who know better are still bending over backwards" to protect Trump. "This is not normal," Obama continued. "How hard can that be, saying that Nazis are bad?" (NBC News / New York Times / Politico)

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/07/obama-says-trump-has-pushed-america-to-a-pivotal-moment-810650

Notables.

George Papadopoulos will be sentenced today after pleading guilty in October to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russians. Papadopoulos was the first campaign adviser to be arrested in connection with Mueller's investigation into Russian influence in the 2016 election. He faces up to six months in prison. (ABC News)

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/papadopoulos-sentenced-russia-investigation/story?id=57658992

A former Roger Stone associate and longtime Trump ally appeared before Mueller's federal grand jury. Randy Credico is one of at least 10 people associated with Stone who have been contacted by the special counsel. (ABC News)

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/roger-stone-associate-appears-mueller-grand-jury/story?id=57657066

Trump "most likely" won't "shut down government over border security" after all. Trump has gone back and forth about the possibility of a government shutdown, and recently said he'd prefer to wait until after the midterms because "we need Republicans elected in the midterms. We are getting the wall done." (NBC News / Politico)

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/07/trump-government-shutdown-border-wall-810638

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#254295: Sep 7th 2018 at 2:12:03 PM

It’s sort of a tangent to current events, but John Oliver segment about Astroturfing, is worth a watch.

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#254296: Sep 7th 2018 at 2:42:51 PM

[up][up][up] Part of me hopes trump insulting and blaming his voters would drive some of them away but the rest knows they're too fanatical for that.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#254297: Sep 7th 2018 at 2:44:49 PM

[up]While you aren't wrong keep in mind that the options are never just "vote for Trump" or "vote for Democrat", they can absolutely just choose not to vote.

Thus while Trump probably isn't going to deal with Republican defections he could absolutely deal with depressed turnout.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#254298: Sep 7th 2018 at 3:05:22 PM

So, if Trump's decided to wait until after midterms to push for The Wall again, I think it's time we can officially say that The Wall's not gonna happen. Because, like, even in the unlikely scenario that the Republicans maintain control of congress, there's still gonna be a congress that's like sympathetic to the Wall than the current one after Midterms- and it's not something the current congress is willing to okay.

I guess it's theoretically possible for it to okayed in 2020, but that strikes me as a very unlikely scenario.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#254299: Sep 7th 2018 at 3:25:41 PM

The Wall already exists.

It's just a fence.

I had a lingering idea George W. Bush was not a complete monster because of the strange idea he wasn't a racist.

The Fence killed that.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
tsstevens Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did from Reading tropes such as Righting Great Wrongs Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Reading tropes such as You Know What You Did
#254300: Sep 7th 2018 at 3:34:29 PM

A Complete Monster would not veto the suggestion to nuke Afghanistan, which makes Trump not a monster but frightening as more and more he is showing signs of being unstable enough to get upset at a tweet or a NYT op ed and say, "Fuck it I'm firing them all."

Currently reading up My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours

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