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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#254176: Sep 6th 2018 at 11:30:21 AM

It's a bad political ploy all around.

The Republican voters love Trump, hate the Republicans not allied with him, and will vote for Trump again.

Distancing themselves from Trump does nothing good for their chances because everyone who hates trump will be voting Democrat.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#254177: Sep 6th 2018 at 11:36:25 AM

It's not Pence. Pence is competent. Competent enough to not use "lodestar."

I am highly skeptical of this assumption, it may not be Pence but it's very questionable to say that Pence is competent. The guy's actual governing record suggests otherwise.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 6th 2018 at 2:36:14 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#254178: Sep 6th 2018 at 11:38:32 AM

Pence is ideologically driven, meaning he has focus: the ability to concentrate on and maintain interest in a plan of action. This is what separates him from Trump. Pence has political experience and knows how to work the system, at least superficially. Pence is not necessarily any more competent at governing, but he can run the apparatus of state.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#254179: Sep 6th 2018 at 11:42:40 AM

Pence is ideologically driven, meaning he has focus: the ability to concentrate on and maintain interest in a plan of action. This is what separates him from Trump. Pence has political experience and knows how to work the system, at least superficially. Pence is not necessarily any more competent at governing, but he can run the apparatus of state.

Yes I know, my point is that stating that Pence is competent and then using that as evidence that he can't have possibly written that oped is very questionable. I don't see being an ideologue who has some focus and experience as very strong evidence of competence.

Especially considering that that he has used that term before and thus the idea that he would unthinkingly include it hardly defies imagination, it's not like there's any prior reason to assume that people would fixate on that.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#254180: Sep 6th 2018 at 11:50:09 AM

The op-ed has the feel of being written by a functionary, an unelected staffer in a position of responsibility. The whole tone is wrong to have been penned by an elected official, or even a Senate-confirmed one. It could be a red herring, of course, designed to throw off inquiries into their identity.

Edited by Fighteer on Sep 6th 2018 at 2:49:59 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#254181: Sep 6th 2018 at 11:53:45 AM

That's reasonable, I don't think Pence writing it (as delicious as that would be) is very likely.

I just took issue with the original sentiment.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#254182: Sep 6th 2018 at 11:57:49 AM

The bigger question, in my mind, is why he hasn't resigned. Fighteer's right in that the word use is fitting for a factotum or minor bureaucra; none of these guys are that essential to preventing disaster, personally or by virtue of their position. They could have gathered evidence, tendered their resignation, and done a tell-all in the open. What do they gain by staying in an administration whose natural inclination towards paranoia is now maximally potentiated? They probably won't be able to do whatever paper-pushing job they actually had anyway, so why are they trying to remain hidden in an administration that's boiling over?

I think that just by remaining unknown, but present within the administration, they're a boogeyman to drive a further Trumpification of the White House's court. The fact that the author identifies himself as a Republican ideologue is probably the most revealing thing — it means literally anyone in the White House is a suspected Trump enemy. A leftist hidden his staff would be sniffed out immediately, with little turmoil among the staff.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Sep 6th 2018 at 3:00:38 PM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#254183: Sep 6th 2018 at 12:02:31 PM

[up] I think you underestimate the ego rush that is gained by being a staffer in the White House. People don't do those jobs for the money, or for the fame (although the networking opportunities must be amazing). No, they do it because there is an unbelievable high from being that close to the real power... from having so much power yourself.

You can read it in every word of the op-ed. This person literally stopped the President from signing a catastrophic order by swiping it off of his desk. You can't beat that adrenaline high. It's ego, pure and simple, that drives their actions, even if they cloak it in respect for democracy. This is the drug that can lead people to commit almost any act, no matter how immoral or despicable, "in the service of country".

Such an individual hates to feel abused, put down, ignored... but what they hate even more is the idea that someone else will take over their role. They don't resign in response to poor treatment; they leak. They manipulate information, pilfer documents. They exercise their shadow power to get their revenge.

Whoever this staffer is, they are reveling in their power right now. Ego, ego, ego, EGO.

Edited by Fighteer on Sep 6th 2018 at 3:31:06 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#254184: Sep 6th 2018 at 12:57:00 PM

Is there an actual chance that Booker will be forced out of the Senate? I mean, if he is, that's not the end of the world; New Jersey has a Democratic governor and isn't electing a Republican to the Senate in this kind of political atmosphere. And getting booted out of the Senate for this might even boost him in the 2020 presidential primary.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#254185: Sep 6th 2018 at 1:00:04 PM

Nah I’m pretty sure they need more than the current Republican majority to boot someone out.

As for the op-ed, it might have been written by a high level staffer to a cabinet member on said member’s orders. Pence might not have written it personly, but he might have authorised someone senior in his office to write it.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#254186: Sep 6th 2018 at 1:18:43 PM

[up][up]Expulsion from either side of Congress requires a 2/3 supermajority, which the GOP does not have even with a lockstep vote. I seriously doubt the GOP convinces 16 Democrats to expel one of their own after all the crap the last few years.

Edited by ViperMagnum357 on Sep 6th 2018 at 4:18:23 AM

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#254187: Sep 6th 2018 at 1:26:35 PM

Ah, so he's safe aside from mean words from the Republicans.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#254188: Sep 6th 2018 at 1:31:04 PM

Even then, it changes nothing. Kavanaugh will likely still be confirmed, because opposition to abortion and birth control are some of the only positions that Republicans, and the mainstream right as a whole, have never fluctuated on for decades.

Edited by Mario1995 on Sep 6th 2018 at 4:33:49 AM

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#254189: Sep 6th 2018 at 1:34:48 PM

Even then, it changes nothing. Kavanaugh will likely still be confirmed, because opposition to abortion and birth control are some of the only positions that Republicans have never fluctuated on for decades.

This is nothing more than counterfactual defeatism, yes Kavanaugh is going to be confirmed but did you spend even a second wondering why the Democrats are so clearly fighting every step of the way?

It's because there's this little thing coming up in a few months called the midterms where if the public sees the bullshit that's going on it can really harm the Republicans, thus contrary to your doomsaying this in-fact can change something.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 6th 2018 at 4:36:08 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#254190: Sep 6th 2018 at 1:36:07 PM

https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2018/09/06/day-595/

Day 595: Total meltdown.

1/ Brett Kavanaugh challenged whether Roe v. Wade was "settled law of the land" in a leaked 2003 email he wrote while serving in the George W. Bush White House. A lawyer for Bush deemed the email "committee confidential" when turning it over to the Senate Judiciary Committee, which meant it could not be made public or discussed by Democrats during Kavanaugh's confirmation hearings this week. In the email, Kavanaugh wrote: "I am not sure that all legal scholars refer to Roe v. Wade as the settled law of the land at the Supreme Court level since Court can always overrule its precedent, and three current Justices on the Court would do so." Following the publication of the Kavanaugh email, two Democratic senators unilaterally released several other "committee confidential" emails. (New York Times / Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/kavanaugh-advised-against-calling-roe-v-wade-settled-law-while-a-white-house-lawyer/2018/09/06/f30216dc-b1df-11e8-a20b-5f4f84429666_story.html?utm_term=.a658c7c87158

READ: Kavanaugh's email on Roe v Wade.

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/269-kavanaugh-email-re-whether-roe/e6dbbda94dd204fe02af/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

2/ Senator Cory Booker released 12 pages of confidential Kavanaugh emails on racial profiling, affirmative action, and other racial issues. Booker acknowledged that he would be "knowingly violating the rules" for releasing the "committee confidential" emails, adding: "And I understand that the penalty comes with potential ousting from the Senate […] I openly invite and accept the consequences…the emails being withheld from the public have nothing to do with national security." Booker then invited Republican Sen. John Cornyn to "bring the charges." (The Guardian / ABC News / CNN / The Hill)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/06/politics/kavanaugh-hearing-document-booker-testimony/index.html

Separately, Senator Mazie Hirono published a "committee confidential" email about policies for Native Hawaiians. The leak was aimed at Senator Lisa Murkowski, Republican of Alaska, who guards the interests of Native Alaskans. In that email, Kavanaugh questioned whether Native Hawaiians should be protected like Indian tribes. (CNBC)

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/06/democratic-senators-say-they-will-risk-expulsion-fight-to-release-kavanaugh-documents.html

READ: The Kavanaugh emails released by Cory Booker. (Document Cloud)

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4834230-387988906-Booker-Confidential-Kavanaugh-Hearing.html#pages/p1

3/ Kavanaugh refused to answer a yes or no question about whether he had discussed Robert Mueller's investigation with one of Trump's attorneys. During a tense exchange, Sen. Kamala Harris asked Kavanaugh whether he had spoken with anyone at Kasowitz Benson & Torres, a law firm founded by Trump's personal attorney Marc Kasowitz. Kavanaugh dodged the question, responding: "Is there a person you’re talking about?" Harris responded: "I think you are thinking of someone, and you don't want to tell us." A Democratic aide said that some in the party "have reason to believe that a conversation happened and are continuing to pursue it." (Politico / CNN / The Hill)

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/05/kavanaugh-mueller-probe-hearings-809115

Marc Kasowitz: "There have been no discussions regarding Robert Mueller's investigation between Judge Kavanaugh and anyone at our firm." Sen. Kamala Harris responded to Kasowitz's statement, saying his denial wasn't "under oath." (CNBC)

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/06/marc-kasowitz-denies-kavanaugh-ever-spoke-to-anyone-at-his-firm.html

4/ The White House is in a state of "total meltdown" with Trump "absolutely livid" and reacting to the anonymous op-ed with "volcanic" anger. The op-ed by "a senior official in the Trump administration" who claims to be part of a "resistance" protecting the U.S. from its president, has set off finger-pointing within the West Wing at the highest levels of the administration. Aides and outside allies say "the sleeper cells have awoken" and that "it's like the horror movies when everyone realizes the call is coming from inside the house." (Politico / Washington Post / New York Times / Talking Points Memo)

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/05/trump-official-comes-out-against-the-president-in-anonymous-times-op-ed-808714

Mike Pence and Mike Pompeo both denied authoring the anonymous op-ed published yesterday in the New York Times. "The Vice President puts his name on his Op-Eds," Pence's spokesperson said on Twitter. "It is sad that you have someone who would make that choice,” said Pompeo. "I come from a place where if you're not in a position to execute the commander's intent, you have a singular option, that is to leave." Social media speculation that Pence wrote the op-ed comes from the use of word "lodestar" in the piece, a word that Pence has used multiple times over the course of more than a decade. (Washington Post / Huff Post)

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lodestar-mike-pence-anonymous-new-york-times_us_5b905dd5e4b0511db3dec1e1

Notables.

The Trump administration rejected an intelligence report last year showing refugees are not a significant security threat to the U.S. Hardliners inside the White House then issued their own report earlier this year that misstated the evidence and inflated the threat posed by those who were born outside the country. (NBC News)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/trump-admin-rejected-report-showing-refugees-did-not-pose-major-n906681

The Trump administration plans to ignore a court ruling in order to detain immigrant children with their parents indefinitely. The proposed changes by the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Health and Human Services would end the Flores Settlement Agreement, a federal consent decree that banned indefinite detention 20 years ago. (NBC News / Washington Post)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/trump-admin-plans-hold-migrant-kids-indefinitely-defying-decades-old-n907006

A government photographer edited photos of Trump inauguration to make the crowd look bigger than it was after Trump intervened. The photographer cropped out the empty space "where the crowd ended" after Trump requested a new set of pictures on the first day of his presidency. The details were not included in the inspector general office's final report on its inquiry into the situation. (The Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/06/donald-trump-inauguration-crowd-size-photos-edited

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#254191: Sep 6th 2018 at 1:54:02 PM

Twitter has permanently banned Alex Jones and Info Wars' accounts.

Trump mine regulator nominee, J. Steven Gardner, withdraws due to the the Ethics Office taking too long.

Edited by tclittle on Sep 6th 2018 at 3:56:20 AM

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#254192: Sep 6th 2018 at 1:56:29 PM

Yay! What places are left to ban him from?

Leviticus 19:34
Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#254193: Sep 6th 2018 at 1:56:32 PM

Maybe trump's anger combined with the fact he likely has dementia or alzheimers will cause him to have a complete mental breakdown, wouldn't that be a nice day!

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#254194: Sep 6th 2018 at 1:56:41 PM

[up][up]Existence?

[up] No, not really nice. As long as he is President, he can give orders. If he goes completely nuts, the 25th Amendment is our primary mechanism to remove him from power, and that depends on the people around him having the guts to do it.

[down] Case in point.

Edited by Fighteer on Sep 6th 2018 at 5:03:26 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#254195: Sep 6th 2018 at 1:59:18 PM

Sarah Huckabee Sanders just tweeted out the number for the New York Times and told her followers to harass them for the author of the anonymous op-ed from yesterday.

Edited by tclittle on Sep 6th 2018 at 4:01:30 AM

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#254197: Sep 6th 2018 at 2:04:16 PM

Nope, she's joining in, just not on the level of her husband or his Press Secretary.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#254198: Sep 6th 2018 at 2:06:33 PM

She deserves Trump, beyond her pretty much everyone in that family with the exception of Baron can be assumed to be terrible person.

Trump has clearly done a wonderful job making a family that reflect his values.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#254199: Sep 6th 2018 at 2:21:09 PM

Did Huckabee Sanders just break some kind of law doing that? Or at least a taboo of some sort?

Do not obey in advance.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#254200: Sep 6th 2018 at 2:29:33 PM

Pence is not necessarily any more competent at governing, but he can run the apparatus of state.

That makes him more competent at governing. He's able to do the bare minimum one expects of a President, which Trump manifestly is not.


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