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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#254151: Sep 6th 2018 at 6:35:23 AM

What's worse, an Alex Jones who believes what he's spouting or a sane person who spouts it anyway for a quick buck?

Sane person, honestly believing in terrible things is bad but it's better then callously using them for personal gain without actually believing.

Thankfully Jones resolves this moral quandary by being a true believer who also says it for personal gain! Which is...double the awfulness.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#254152: Sep 6th 2018 at 6:39:07 AM

The entire point of the 25th amendment is to deal with this sort of situation. Using it wouldn’t be a constitutional crisis. It would be in the public view, and it would go through established process and democratic channels.

Straight up REFUSING to use it and instead having the president’s staff managing the president like a toddler and hiding documents is far, far worse. Because all of this is happening in secret, outside the democratic process, and without accountability.

Agreed. Impeachment and the 25th are clear mechanisms to remove an incompetent or unfit president. Doing all this go behind the back and manipulative stuff to prevent the president's will from being carried out is a MUCH BIGGER crisis as it calls into question the legitimacy of the office, its orders, and whether anyone can circumvent them and defy the chain of command anytime they choose.

This person and all the other people only care about getting what they want. If they really cared about what was best for the country, the first time Trump tried to do something horrifying, (like call for the assassination of a foreign leader or the nuking of North Korea) they should have shouted about it from the rooftops and gotten Trump replaced. They didn't do that because it would have made the fanatically loyal Trump base revolt, (maybe I should say rebel, since so many of them are already revolting) and caused dire consequences for the Republican party. Worse, it might have let Democrats win.

They want Trump to be their puppet so they can get tax cuts and persecute the LGBTQ population and racial and religious minorities, without the threat of losing elections or the Republican Party imploding as would happen if they ousted Trump and put Pence in his place. They need Trump, they need his appointed justices so they can continue to steer the country even if they're voted out of power for 20 years, so when the voters finally forget all the horrible shit they've done they can slide right back in and pick up where they left off, without liberals having been able to make any headway against their agenda.

They're scum. It's good for the country and the planet that these people didn't, say, allow Trump to let the nukes fly or abandon South Korea entirely to North Korea, but they're scum nonetheless. Momentarily useful, but still very much my enemy.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#254153: Sep 6th 2018 at 6:40:00 AM

What's worse, an Alex Jones who believes what he's spouting or a sane person who spouts it anyway for a quick buck?

There's no practical difference between an idiot and somebody pretending to be one - either way, people will think you're an idiot.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#254154: Sep 6th 2018 at 7:00:12 AM

Say, can the White House staff who have done all this sabotage of Trump's EOs and what not be charged with federal crimes after Trump is successfully impeached, on account that by this Op-Ed (and the results of whatever federal investigation is carried out to corrobate the claims in said Op-Ed) they knew they had more than enough reason to invoke the 25th and yet refused to do so in favor of actually engaging in criminal sabotage of the POTUS just so that they could maintain Republican control of the White House (because replacing Trump with Pence using the 25th would destroy their support with Trump's most devoted supporters, i.e. the essential core of the GOP's voter base)?

Edited by MarqFJA on Sep 6th 2018 at 5:00:24 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#254155: Sep 6th 2018 at 7:08:38 AM

This is a real-life thriller movie. I haven't been this riveted by an unknown person leaking info since the surveillance story of 2013.

That said, I generally agree with most here that, yeah, I guess I give them credit for preventing World War III or a total economic collapse but that's damning with faint praise. And isn't it a bad thing that this essentially validates Trump's fears of a "deep state"? Only the deep state isn't coming from an alphabet agency, it's from someone a lot closer.

BTW, an off-topic question and I wasn't sure where to ask it: Why can't I see my posts from July 18th and earlier? When I search for my username in "Find Posts By Troper" and click on this link, for example, it shows a different user's post.

Edited by speedyboris on Sep 6th 2018 at 9:10:31 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#254156: Sep 6th 2018 at 7:13:07 AM

That said, I generally agree with most here that, yeah, I guess I give them credit for preventing World War III or a total economic collapse but that's damning with faint praise. And isn't it a bad thing that this essentially validates Trump's fears of a "deep state"? Only the deep state isn't coming from an alphabet agency, it's from someone a lot closer.

If they've prevented him from stopping World War III, the only person I think can credibly claim that would be Mattis. They absolutely would not be responsible for stopping total economic collapse in that they're Republicans and thus their economic policies have no connection to reality.

But yes the fact that this will infuriate him and weaken his will is undoubtedly a good thing, even if the person doing it is a cowardly reprobate.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
StarOutlaw Since: Nov, 2010
#254157: Sep 6th 2018 at 9:04:25 AM

They don't deserve credit for basic human decency. What they're doing is simply the very least anyone with a spine and moral fiber would do. That they helped Trump get where he is undermines whatever "good" they do. Like putting out the fire they started.

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#254158: Sep 6th 2018 at 9:06:14 AM

So from what I'm reading about the content of Kav's emails, does that not technically finger him for perjury? Something about stating under oath that he first found out about the warrantless surveillance stuff in 2005 when NYT broke it but we have correspondence from 2001 about it with the man who wrote the policy.

Edited by Deadbeatloser22 on Sep 6th 2018 at 5:05:59 PM

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#254159: Sep 6th 2018 at 9:06:48 AM

I just hoping that if anything comes of this Trump gets treated as well as he treated his ex-wives. Or as well as he treated his partners.

Also just a note, that if any Republican ever makes a statement about morality ever again just scream "You elected Trump!"

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#254160: Sep 6th 2018 at 9:10:32 AM

In Jones case, there's no difference between the believer and the opportunist to those affected by his actions.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#254161: Sep 6th 2018 at 9:26:13 AM

So, the Kavanaugh hearings have gone completely, shit-hitting-the-fan sideways.surprised

Basically- a ton of Kavanaugh records are being kept from the public for no good reason, and oh god, they’re very bad on race, campaign finance, and Roe.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#254162: Sep 6th 2018 at 9:28:59 AM

Excellent, the more the public knows that it's a nonsensical farce the more they're likely to turn against the Republicans going into the midterms.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#254163: Sep 6th 2018 at 9:33:16 AM

Apparently, Cory Booker broke some rules to release some documents that the Trump administration was concealing from the Senate, in order to get everyone the full information on Brett Kavanaugh's views on various issues and how he would be as a judge. Damn bravery.

Life is unfair...
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#254164: Sep 6th 2018 at 9:35:46 AM

I mean, it’s not clear what rules he’s breaking... they didn’t assert a real form of privilege, which one of the links in my previous post notes.

[up][up] Given that there’s still a lot of people who have no idea about the Kavanaugh hearings, I’m not down to celebrate the absolutely horrifying behavior by the republicans.

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#254165: Sep 6th 2018 at 9:36:01 AM

And apparently they were marked confidential not for containing privileged information, but because they might look bad if brought out.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#254166: Sep 6th 2018 at 9:38:01 AM

Given that there’s still a lot of people who have no idea about the Kavanaugh hearings, I’m not down to celebrate the absolutely horrifying behavior by the republicans.

The Republicans are always horrifying, that won't stop me from celebrating.

And yes you're right that many people don't know but that shouldn't be surprising or seen as a bad thing, not everyone is as informed as we are and thus it will take time for the news to filter down and the more nonsense there is the more people will notice.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#254167: Sep 6th 2018 at 9:43:17 AM

Alex Jones should not throw stones in a glass house. One look at him in younger years paints the picture of a vain, hedonistic frat boy Jerk Jock.

I look forward to Woodward's visit to Colbert on Monday.

Friendperson Since: May, 2018
#254168: Sep 6th 2018 at 9:50:35 AM

Did we already talk about the conspiracy theory of Zina Bash flashing a white power hand sign during the Kavanaugh hearing?

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#254169: Sep 6th 2018 at 10:25:20 AM

Mike Pence and Mike Pompeo both strongly denied authoring the anonymous op-ed published yesterday in the New York Times. "The Vice President puts his name on his Op-Eds," Pence's spokesperson said on Twitter. "It is sad that you have someone who would make that choice,” said Pompeo. "I come from a place where if you’re not in a position to execute the commander’s intent, you have a singular option, that is to leave." Social media speculation that Pence wrote the op-ed comes from the use of word "lodestar" in the piece, a word that Pence has used multiple times over the course of more than a decade

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/pence-pompeo-deny-authorship-of-anonymous-new-york-times-op-ed-on-trump/2018/09/06/ca116fd2-b1c3-11e8-a20b-5f4f84429666_story.html?utm_term=.ea66a563afb6


Going back to an oldie but a goodie:

A government photographer edited photos of Trump inauguration to make the crowd look bigger than it was after Trump personally intervened. Newly released documents show that the photographer cropped out the empty space "where the crowd ended" after Trump requested a new set of pictures on the first morning of his presidency. The newly discovered details were not included in the inspector general office's final report on its inquiry into the situation.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/06/donald-trump-inauguration-crowd-size-photos-edited

Edited by sgamer82 on Sep 6th 2018 at 11:27:08 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#254170: Sep 6th 2018 at 10:29:02 AM

wild mass guessThe aim is to make it look like Pence did it so Trump fires him

As for who authored it,could be Rex Tillerson

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#254171: Sep 6th 2018 at 10:40:46 AM

The author was clearly Kush. He's stoking Trump's paranoia to re-centralize control of the White House's inner court more firmly in Trump Organization hands.

In seriousness, though, I doubt the op-ed is genuine. Tell-alls tend to be written by resigned or purged administration personnel months, years, decades after the fact and are written in the light of day under the author's real name. The fact that it just randomly dropped this week, casually confirming everything Trump believes about the White House apparatus's allegiance, and redirects his paranoia towards the establishment elements of the bureaucracy with the promise that somewhere, The Mole exists, undermining his regime from within while being entirely supportive of his policies, along with the violation of constitutional norms that comes with this sort of court intrigue, makes me question the author's ulterior motives.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#254172: Sep 6th 2018 at 11:17:27 AM

I think it's Pence because we've heard many-many-many stories about how Pence is serving as the Tywin to Trump's Joffrey.

Doing the actual business of governing which Trump can't be bothered to.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Sep 6th 2018 at 11:17:03 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#254173: Sep 6th 2018 at 11:25:20 AM

[up][up]If it is a deception, they've fooled the NYT. No way that this wasn't vetted to hell and back.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#254174: Sep 6th 2018 at 11:26:20 AM

@Crimson Zephyr-

I doubt that Trump is that smart and the thought of that kind of cleverly evil False Flag Operation being in play is too scary for me to consider.

However, I do agree in terms of suspecting a bad intent, whether or not the author thinks of it that way. Specifically, the author objects to Trump in terms of him "not being a true Republican", which seems aimed to distance Republicans (including the author) from bad press associated with Trump. More importantly, the author kind of reassures Republican elected officials (and close to the mid-terms no less) that they don't need to worry about Trump/do anything to impede him, because there are "true patriots" inside the Administration who are preventing him from doing anything "too bad".

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#254175: Sep 6th 2018 at 11:27:13 AM

It's not Pence. Pence is competent. Competent enough to not use "lodestar."

[up][up][up] I think he means "deception" in the sense that it's from the White House insider, but it's just a made-up narrative to make the GOP look good to the various Republicans that go "I mean, I'm a Republican, but I don't support Trump."

Edited by Larkmarn on Sep 6th 2018 at 2:30:22 PM

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