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MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#254101: Sep 5th 2018 at 3:57:25 PM

Slate has an article about the book "Fear: Trump in the White House", that claims that the Cabinet is doing a less formal version of the 25th amendment, by subtly stymieing part of Trump's agenda.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Sep 5th 2018 at 4:01:15 AM

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#254102: Sep 5th 2018 at 4:01:55 PM

[up][up] Yeah, perhaps a little off topic.

I’m sort of talking broad strokes political theory here, obviously it doesn’t always work out like that. The big thing in fascism is the mythos, and to a lesser degree the flipped role of the state compared to a regular dictatorship.

They should have sent a poet.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#254103: Sep 5th 2018 at 4:20:04 PM

So, Trump and crew are on the warpath, trying to determine who among them spoke to Woodward. Another upcoming plan is too attack the credibility of the former members of the administration who spoke to him.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/05/politics/trump-woodward-book-leakers/index.html

And since I doubt that anyone believes that the NYT made shit up and/or believed a random anonymous message, I suspect that a hunt for The Mole to begin in earnest as well.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#254104: Sep 5th 2018 at 4:21:13 PM

The New York Times has published an anonymous piece allegedly by a senior Trump staffer confirming Woodward's claim that Administration officials actively run interference to keep his daily stupidity and malice in check.

x5 Here's the whole thing. It confirms a lot of what we already suspected, I think, but it's worth a read.

Personally, I'm rather suspicious of this article, given the way it's worded and the timing of its publication.

By deduction, the person is a Republican — they openly favour the tax cut bill that was passed, which may or may not make them wealthy, but does most likely make them a staunch Republican. They state they believe that Trump's policies have 'already made America safer and more prosperous' — language that comes straight from Trump himself. More importantly, it comes across as a dog-whistle for supporting the immigration ban.

They state they're part of the resistance but are so quick to distance themselves from the left that it's obvious they're aiming the article at Republican voters who would never support the Democrats but who don't want to vote for Trump or his supporters.

Most importantly, note how they point out they're part of the group that's mitigating Trump's worst behaviours and how, later on in the article, they state that the people in the White House who are opposing Trump's agenda are 'unsung heroes'.

So, they're patting themselves on their own back for their own self-styled heroism.

It also makes no sense to post this article at all, knowing that the information will likely get back to Trump and send him off on one of his leakers, fake news and anonymous sources rants. Unless that's the point — if it does annoy Trump, it brings attention to its existence and gains wide media coverage. It potentially reaches a wider audience that way.

My suspicion is that the purpose of this article is to reassure Republicans who don't want to associate with Trump and who don't want to associate with the Democrats. When you look at the article from that perspective, this article is reassuring — there are good Republicans protecting the country and Republican values from the president, but that will all be destroyed if the left (with their completely different resistence agenda) manages to get too many electoral successes in the mid-terms.

In short, this article looks to me to be designed to get Republicans out and voting. It might also be encouraging Democratic voters, especially Blue Dog voters, to stay at home and not worry because the country is in 'safe' hands even though Trump is present.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 5th 2018 at 12:29:50 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#254105: Sep 5th 2018 at 4:24:08 PM

[up]Very true, but its also likely to unleash a flurry of additional paranoia in the halls of power, on top of what Woodward's book is doing.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#254106: Sep 5th 2018 at 4:24:31 PM

Believe it or not, some people are thinking that Pence, of all people, wrote it, mostly because it uses the term lodestar, an odd choice of word that Pence has repeatedly made use of.

Oh God! Natural light!
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#254107: Sep 5th 2018 at 4:26:03 PM

My gut instinct was that it's been written by a Pence supporter. That wasn't because of the lodestar reference, however.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 6th 2018 at 10:27:40 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#254108: Sep 5th 2018 at 4:27:54 PM

In good news: a series of new polls have consistently put Trump in the mid-high 30s of approval, instead of in the low 40s. This is pushing him back towards his pre-tax cut numbers and if the trend holds or worsens it will only make things worse for the GOP in November.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/05/politics/trump-approval-drop-midterms/index.html

Edited by Rationalinsanity on Sep 5th 2018 at 8:32:37 AM

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#254109: Sep 5th 2018 at 4:29:44 PM

Also it seems he may be randomly tweeting about treason again.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
StarOutlaw Since: Nov, 2010
#254110: Sep 5th 2018 at 4:30:32 PM

This all feels like the biggest case of the emerperor having no clothes, with everyone on Trump's side too proud or afraid of embarassment to just admit what everyone else can obviously see. And for some it's just in their interest to keep telling the lie, whether they believe it or not.

But really, Trump and Trump's people are probably proud of being as blatantly corrupt ad they are, because some people just get off on that abuse of power. Like, the kind of people who could win without cheating but do it anyway because getting away with it makes them feel smarter than the suckers they fool. It gets to the point where their whole world view revolves around scamming everyone they meet. A kind of sadism, maybe?

This whole mess is too dumb to be a conspiracy, but it is a con. Just some thoughts.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#254111: Sep 5th 2018 at 4:42:51 PM

Great, now I've got to worry about Trump walking out into public nude and expecting everyone to act like he's wearing the best suit ever.

dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#254113: Sep 5th 2018 at 5:16:58 PM

[up]x7 It is mentioned that the NY Times knows the identity of the writer, for what it's worth.

And anyway, haven't we suspected that there were people within the Trump White House, giving him the Bureaucratic run around on some of his dumber ideas, and trying to reign him in somewhat (keyword: trying), for a while now? I mean, the leaks have to come from somewhere.

Edited by megaeliz on Sep 5th 2018 at 8:29:03 AM

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#254114: Sep 5th 2018 at 5:24:28 PM

The LA Times responded to the NY Times piece with one of their own, calling the writer a coward.

Nobody who’s part of the real resistance should be celebrating this. If you work in this administration and carry out any part of Trump's agenda, you are enabling him, not undermining him. If we have a president so incompetent that his most trusted advisors have to play peekaboo to preserve national security, then those people should be working to get him out of office, not just spare us from his cruelest impulses.

The truth is, Republicans don't want Trump out of office. They're clearly pleased with this “two-track” arrangement. They're advancing the right-wing economic agenda that President Jeb Bush or Ted Cruz would have been championing while preserving their popularity with Trump's base.

If you're reading this, senior White House official, know this: You are not resisting Donald Trump. You are enabling him for your own benefit. That doesn't make you an unsung hero. It makes you a coward.

Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#254115: Sep 5th 2018 at 5:25:53 PM

A journalist is speculating that Pence wrote that gutless op-ed, based on Pence’s unusual tendency of using the word lodestar.

Possible... but deliberately mimicking the speech patterns of others in the administration is something at least one leaker has admitted to doing

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#254116: Sep 5th 2018 at 5:27:54 PM

Honestly, the dude who wrote the Op-Ed is still a piece of shit. Fuck outta here with that "We're part of the Resistance too!"

You're still advocating shitty policies you stupid assholes.

New Survey coming this weekend!
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#254117: Sep 5th 2018 at 5:33:49 PM

I have mixed feelings about it.

On one hand, they are just as despicable as he is, just less obvious about it. They still support the Republican agenda, they just are smart enough to realize that Trump is stark raving bananas. They dug their own graves, and now all of us have to suffer as a result.

On the other hand, in the middle of this situation, I'm just kinda glad that there's relatively rational (in comparison) people in the White House, who recognize that Trump is a narcissistic idiot, and are actively trying to keep things running in a frankly insane situation.

As I pointed out before, this is something we've suspected for a while now. It explains a lot about for example, the difference between what Trump has said, versus what his administration has actually done about Russia.

Take foreign policy: In public and in private, President Trump shows a preference for autocrats and dictators, such as President Vladimir Putin of Russia and North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong-un, and displays little genuine appreciation for the ties that bind us to allied, like-minded nations.

Astute observers have noted, though, that the rest of the administration is operating on another track, one where countries like Russia are called out for meddling and punished accordingly, and where allies around the world are engaged as peers rather than ridiculed as rivals.

On Russia, for instance, the president was reluctant to expel so many of Mr. Putin’s spies as punishment for the poisoning of a former Russian spy in Britain. He complained for weeks about senior staff members letting him get boxed into further confrontation with Russia, and he expressed frustration that the United States continued to impose sanctions on the country for its malign behavior. But his national security team knew better — such actions had to be taken, to hold Moscow accountable.

This isn’t the work of the so-called deep state. It’s the work of the steady state.

I think it may have even been discussed here at one point.

Edited by megaeliz on Sep 5th 2018 at 8:41:01 AM

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#254118: Sep 5th 2018 at 5:40:45 PM

I see it as a case of Evil Versus Oblivion. an unfettered Trump would surely cause the nukes to fly and turn the earth into a lifeless wasteland in days. The rest of the party wants a slower demise, one slow enough that they get to die first and enjoy their ill gotten gains.

With that said, I must admit that Trump's accusation of the op-ed as gutless is accurate, but probably for reasons different from Trump's, such as those of the LA times. And that opinion will never change unless they do invoke the 25th and get him out of office.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Sep 5th 2018 at 5:44:07 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#254119: Sep 5th 2018 at 5:47:16 PM

I really do think it's Pence.

Which is hilarious and sad.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#254120: Sep 5th 2018 at 5:51:37 PM

It does note one thing, if the op ed is to be believed the only reason they haven’t invoked the 25th is because they don’t want a constitutional crisis, so if one comes about anyway (such as an impeachment movement that gets enough popular support) they may take the plunge.

I’m still putting money on in the event that Trump leaves office early he has to be removed physically, he won’t resign and I wouldn’t put it past him to try and literally set the place on fire on his way out.

The talk of the 25th does make it seem like it’s either a cabinet member or someone close to a cabinet member. Also the lack of talk about religion as a point of success indicates to me that they either don’t consider that a point of success or consider to a huge point and avoided mentioning it to cover their tracks.

Edited by Silasw on Sep 5th 2018 at 12:52:23 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#254121: Sep 5th 2018 at 5:55:12 PM

As a note, basically everyone who has ever met Pence knows that he really wants to be President. I mean come on, its not like an outright Starscream act is out of the question here...

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#254122: Sep 5th 2018 at 5:55:35 PM

[up][up] The specific mention of not wanting to use the Twenty-fifth Amendment makes me think it's not Pence.

Edited by megaeliz on Sep 5th 2018 at 8:55:45 AM

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#254123: Sep 5th 2018 at 6:15:36 PM

And on top of all this lovely stuff, Trump is still flirting with a shutdown over the Wall.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-05/trump-flirts-with-government-shutdown-gop-is-racing-to-avoid?srnd=premium

Go on Donald, do it. Don't want to look weak now, do we?evil grin

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#254124: Sep 5th 2018 at 6:23:27 PM

[up][up]I wouldn't rule out Pence because of that. Whoever wrote it knows one thing: Trump's base would never forgive whoever helped force Trump out of office unless Trump suffered a psychotic break on live television.

Edited by TheRoguePenguin on Sep 5th 2018 at 6:23:25 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#254125: Sep 5th 2018 at 6:34:53 PM

Whoever this writer is, they are no resistance. They are one of the people who enables this administration, putting a veneer of civility on it. They're the ones desperately slathering Trump's shit with frosting and telling the public it's cake.

Not that they need bother. Trump's supporters would gladly eat Trump's shit and call it fine chocolate. Everyone else can tell that putting frosting on shit doesn't make it cake — it's just frosted shit.

Disgusted, but not surprised

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