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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#254051: Sep 5th 2018 at 8:08:38 AM

I wonder if Woodward's book will cause any heads to roll at the White House....
An opinion article I read said that we need audio tapes to bolster Woodward's quotes. Not that said author doubted Woodward's sources but that audio would make it harder for the skeptics crowd to deny.

Edited by speedyboris on Sep 5th 2018 at 10:09:56 AM

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#254052: Sep 5th 2018 at 9:50:51 AM

WaPo: Trump suggests that protesting should be illegal

President Trump has long derided the mainstream media as the “enemy of the people” and lashed out at NFL players for kneeling during the national anthem. On Tuesday, he took his attacks on free speech one step further, suggesting in an interview with a conservative news site that the act of protesting should be illegal.

Trump made the remarks in an Oval Office interview with the Daily Caller hours after his Supreme Court nominee, Brett M. Kavanaugh, was greeted by protests on the first day of his confirmation hearings on Capitol Hill.

“I don’t know why they don’t take care of a situation like that,” Trump said. “I think it’s embarrassing for the country to allow protesters. You don’t even know what side the protesters are on.”

He added: “In the old days, we used to throw them out. Today, I guess they just keep screaming.”

More than 70 people were arrested after they repeatedly heckled Kavanaugh and senators at Tuesday’s hearing.

Trump has bristled at dissent in the past, including several instances in which he has suggested demonstrators should lose their jobs or be met with violence for speaking out.

First Amendment? What's that?

"Yup. That tasted purple."
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#254053: Sep 5th 2018 at 10:00:25 AM

Trump, continuing to reveal the true nature of his hypocritical base. Again.

I'd say this would never pass, but I'm certain the Republican Justices and lawmakers would try to defang the part of the first amendment by pulling a constrained definition of "protest" outta their collective asses.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Sep 5th 2018 at 10:02:40 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#254054: Sep 5th 2018 at 10:06:32 AM

Trump's honesty is deeply refreshing.

At last we can get the evil out in the open with no disguise that it's not hate ridden fascism.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#254055: Sep 5th 2018 at 10:10:43 AM

Trump's honesty is also part of the problem. It's great that we see the GOP for who they really are, but Trump doesn't just pull back the curtain, he removes a lot of the shackles as well. This might seem like a sort of hokey thing to say, but even the most odious people look to authority for cues as to what is and isn't permissible. When the President is screaming about throwing protesters in jail and pushing companies to terminate their employment, these people hear the dog trumpets and know it's permissible to employ violence in turn.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#254057: Sep 5th 2018 at 10:27:11 AM

The Purge by 2019.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Sep 5th 2018 at 10:26:37 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#254058: Sep 5th 2018 at 10:28:25 AM

[up][up]To be fair, this isn't the first time he's said this. I'm pretty sure he said something to the same effect just a few months into his Presidency. It's not like this is anything new or shocking.

Edited by kkhohoho on Sep 5th 2018 at 12:28:01 PM

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#254059: Sep 5th 2018 at 10:34:31 AM

I refuse to normalize it. It's shocking no matter how many times this wannabe dictator says it.

Edited by speedyboris on Sep 5th 2018 at 12:34:15 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#254060: Sep 5th 2018 at 10:39:29 AM

I am not surprised he said this again, but I am as disgusted as ever.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#254061: Sep 5th 2018 at 10:45:19 AM

The alarming prospect is that if Democrats regain control of both chambers of Congress, he'll do everything he can to make their jobs impossible, relying continuously on executive orders to get his authoritarian agenda pushing and getting them reinforced by the Supreme Court.

Edited by Mario1995 on Sep 5th 2018 at 1:45:06 PM

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#254062: Sep 5th 2018 at 10:46:51 AM

If he does somehow outlaw protesting, how long do you think it will be before the mass riots start?

Corvidae It's a bird. from Somewhere Else Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
It's a bird.
#254063: Sep 5th 2018 at 10:51:38 AM

I wonder what will happen once this eventually ends. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if someone has to physically wrestle the guy down and drag him out of the White House...

Still a great "screw depression" song even after seven years.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#254064: Sep 5th 2018 at 10:56:35 AM

I'm seeing reports that Kavanaugh has said "no one is above the law". Given the general impression of why Trump wants him in particular, it gave me a thought: is there any way to provoke Trump into withdrawing Kavanaugh as his nominee?

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#254065: Sep 5th 2018 at 10:59:32 AM

[up]All that would happen is Trump nominating someone else. Or worse. Like Roy Moore.

Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#254066: Sep 5th 2018 at 11:00:17 AM

[up][up][up][up]And then we become Venezuela or, in the worst case scenario, Syria, once the regime makes it clear it has no intention of leaving or stepping down.

Edited by Mario1995 on Sep 5th 2018 at 2:02:34 PM

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#254067: Sep 5th 2018 at 11:01:31 AM

Come on man, we've talked about this.

What regime even is there? Can you name a single general or military officer that doesn't hate Trump more than life itself?

Or that the Secret Service won't gladly fulfill their job and physically toss his ass out on the street as soon as his term is up? Because they hate him too and they're the ones in charge of that.

Nobody who would be able to turn America into a military junta or anything even resembling such a thing is loyal to Trump on a personal level.

Edited by LeGarcon on Sep 5th 2018 at 2:08:11 PM

Oh really when?
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#254068: Sep 5th 2018 at 11:09:16 AM

Worth noting regarding protests: as soon as Trump’s inauguration was protested, a wave of attempts to effectively outlaw protesting or to make it much more difficult to do protest marches. IIRC, something like 18 states tried to pass such laws, with some of the examples that stuck in my mind being Arizona, (where they wanted to be able to charge protesters under racketeering laws should any violence happen at the protests, complete with being able to seize property like homes and cars, freeze bank accounts, etc.) and North Dakota. (Where they wanted to give legal protections to people who ran over protesters blocking a road, and then of course 6 months later Charlottesville happened over in South Carolina...)

Nearly all of these bills got shot down by lawsuits from the ACLU and such, but 1 or 2 did get through, including the North Dakota law, if my memory serves. So once again, it’s just the worst instincts of the Republican Party being amplified by Trump making them more visible.

If Trump did try it he’d be crossing a major line, and the response would certainly be... interesting...

Edit: link to the ACLU page about those bills

Edited by TheWanderer on Sep 5th 2018 at 2:12:04 PM

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#254069: Sep 5th 2018 at 11:56:29 AM

Not to call anyone out but it’s the same group of people every time with the over-the-top alarmism in this thread. Could we get a mod to just tell everyone to knock that stuff off?

Bills outlawing protesting generally don’t go over well because to be able to successfully outlaw protesting they have to be dangerously broad, broad enough that they affect lots of other activities.

Edited by archonspeaks on Sep 5th 2018 at 11:59:35 AM

They should have sent a poet.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#254070: Sep 5th 2018 at 12:12:37 PM

The alarming prospect is that if Democrats regain control of both chambers of Congress, he'll do everything he can to make their jobs impossible, relying continuously on executive orders to get his authoritarian agenda pushing and getting them reinforced by the Supreme Court.

This isn't alarming, a Trump who has to rely on executive orders to get by a hostile Congress domestically is pretty much Obama. I.e his legacy can be wiped away by the next hostile President.

This just isn't how our system works, if Congress and the President fight domestically Congress is going to win. I would love for this situation to come to pass, it would be a wonderful way to contain his damage.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 5th 2018 at 3:12:31 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#254071: Sep 5th 2018 at 1:00:19 PM

The New York Times has published an anonymous piece allegedly by a senior Trump staffer confirming Woodward's claim that Administration officials actively run interference to keep his daily stupidity and malice in check.

CookingCat Since: Jul, 2018
#254072: Sep 5th 2018 at 1:11:34 PM

[up][up][up] Yeah, it's speedyboris, Kaiseror and Mario 1995.

Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#254073: Sep 5th 2018 at 1:12:40 PM

White House discussing potential replacements for Jim Mattis as Defense Secretary in the event he quits or is fired. These talks have apparently been going since before yesterday's bombshell from Bob Woodward.

Jack Keane is the top contender for the position, but he initially declined the job during the transition. So likelier replacements would be either senators Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Tom Cotton (R-AR), former Treasury official David McCormick and ex-senator Jim Talent (R-MO).

The reason I fear either Cotton or Graham will be named is because Republicans aren't expected to lose the Senate (indeed, their majority might expand) so they'll be more comfortable letting either of those two go.

Edited by Mario1995 on Sep 5th 2018 at 4:13:15 AM

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
CookingCat Since: Jul, 2018
#254074: Sep 5th 2018 at 1:16:49 PM
Thumped: Please see The Rules . This is a warning that this post is the sort of thing that will get you suspended.
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#254075: Sep 5th 2018 at 1:27:16 PM

[up]x5 Here's the whole thing. It confirms a lot of what we already suspected, I think, but it's worth a read.

I Am Part of the Resistance Inside the Trump Administration

The Times today is taking the rare step of publishing an anonymous Op-Ed essay. We have done so at the request of the author, a senior official in the Trump administration whose identity is known to us and whose job would be jeopardized by its disclosure. We believe publishing this essay anonymously is the only way to deliver an important perspective to our readers. We invite you to submit a question about the essay or our vetting process here.

President Trump is facing a test to his presidency unlike any faced by a modern American leader.

It’s not just that the special counsel looms large. Or that the country is bitterly divided over Mr. Trump’s leadership. Or even that his party might well lose the House to an opposition hellbent on his downfall.

The dilemma — which he does not fully grasp — is that many of the senior officials in his own administration are working diligently from within to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.

I would know. I am one of them.

To be clear, ours is not the popular “resistance” of the left. We want the administration to succeed and think that many of its policies have already made America safer and more prosperous.

But we believe our first duty is to this country, and the president continues to act in a manner that is detrimental to the health of our republic.

That is why many Trump appointees have vowed to do what we can to preserve our democratic institutions while thwarting Mr. Trump’s more misguided impulses until he is out of office.

The root of the problem is the president’s amorality. Anyone who works with him knows he is not moored to any discernible first principles that guide his decision making.

Although he was elected as a Republican, the president shows little affinity for ideals long espoused by conservatives: free minds, free markets and free people. At best, he has invoked these ideals in scripted settings. At worst, he has attacked them outright.

In addition to his mass-marketing of the notion that the press is the “enemy of the people,” President Trump’s impulses are generally anti-trade and anti-democratic.

Don’t get me wrong. There are bright spots that the near-ceaseless negative coverage of the administration fails to capture: effective deregulation, historic tax reform, a more robust military and more.

But these successes have come despite — not because of — the president’s leadership style, which is impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective.

From the White House to executive branch departments and agencies, senior officials will privately admit their daily disbelief at the commander in chief’s comments and actions. Most are working to insulate their operations from his whims.

Meetings with him veer off topic and off the rails, he engages in repetitive rants, and his impulsiveness results in half-baked, ill-informed and occasionally reckless decisions that have to be walked back.

“There is literally no telling whether he might change his mind from one minute to the next,” a top official complained to me recently, exasperated by an Oval Office meeting at which the president flip-flopped on a major policy decision he’d made only a week earlier

The erratic behavior would be more concerning if it weren’t for unsung heroes in and around the White House. Some of his aides have been cast as villains by the media. But in private, they have gone to great lengths to keep bad decisions contained to the West Wing, though they are clearly not always successful.

It may be cold comfort in this chaotic era, but Americans should know that there are adults in the room. We fully recognize what is happening. And we are trying to do what’s right even when Donald Trump won’t.

The result is a two-track presidency.

Take foreign policy: In public and in private, President Trump shows a preference for autocrats and dictators, such as President Vladimir Putin of Russia and North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong-un, and displays little genuine appreciation for the ties that bind us to allied, like-minded nations.

Astute observers have noted, though, that the rest of the administration is operating on another track, one where countries like Russia are called out for meddling and punished accordingly, and where allies around the world are engaged as peers rather than ridiculed as rivals.

On Russia, for instance, the president was reluctant to expel so many of Mr. Putin’s spies as punishment for the poisoning of a former Russian spy in Britain. He complained for weeks about senior staff members letting him get boxed into further confrontation with Russia, and he expressed frustration that the United States continued to impose sanctions on the country for its malign behavior. But his national security team knew better — such actions had to be taken, to hold Moscow accountable.

This isn’t the work of the so-called deep state. It’s the work of the steady state.

Given the instability many witnessed, there were early whispers within the cabinet of invoking the 25th Amendment, which would start a complex process for removing the president. But no one wanted to precipitate a constitutional crisis. So we will do what we can to steer the administration in the right direction until — one way or another — it’s over.

The bigger concern is not what Mr. Trump has done to the presidency but rather what we as a nation have allowed him to do to us. We have sunk low with him and allowed our discourse to be stripped of civility.

Senator John Mc Cain put it best in his farewell letter. All Americans should heed his words and break free of the tribalism trap, with the high aim of uniting through our shared values and love of this great nation.

We may no longer have Senator Mc Cain. But we will always have his example — a lodestar for restoring honor to public life and our national dialogue. Mr. Trump may fear such honorable men, but we should revere them.

There is a quiet resistance within the administration of people choosing to put country first. But the real difference will be made by everyday citizens rising above politics, reaching across the aisle and resolving to shed the labels in favor of a single one: Americans.

Edited by megaeliz on Sep 5th 2018 at 4:29:59 AM


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