Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lPpsVBWDXZA
Shit like this is why people hate establishment Dems. They cave to rethuglicans even when they should tell them to fuck off
Schumer's picking his battles. Every article I've seen on this calls it a "deal" that Dems struck with Republicans. "Deal" implies that we got something in return for it.
Certainly, there are people on the Left who think we should just be going full-obstruction and blocking any and every court pick that Trump makes. But if we do that, it fuels the Both Sider narrative. Playing ball with smaller judicial confirmations before entering into an obstruction campaign against Kavanaugh reinforces the idea that we're not trying to stop Trump from ever appointing a judge; we just aren't willing to accept Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court.
It keeps the narrative focused on this being the fight and away from "Democrats obstruct each and every Judicial nomination because they're all corrupt extremist ideologues no better than the Republicans!"
These are the kind of compromises you have to accept when you have no power in Washington. If you want to see Democrats fighting back harder against Trump, vote to elect more Democrats.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I am. But at the same time Dems have done a lot of stupid shit. They joined the vote to repeal glass stiegal; they opposed certain regulation for Wall Street
Also the problem is that even if the Dems do do this they’re still going to fail to convince people the both sides narrative isn’t stupid.
At this point it feels more like the Dems are just rolling over. Obama tried to be concillitory and got shat on for his efforts. So at this point if the Dems win both houses they should do to the rethuglicans what the rethuglicans have done for years.
Yeah, I can't respect the arguments of people who use "rethuglicans" any more than I can people who constantly use "libtards". It speaks to a usually unthinking position in which the other guy is always the bad guy. It's not healthy for discourse.
In any case, "do what others have done to you" is not exactly helpful as a strategy. For one thing, I would prefer that Democrats be interested in achieving goals rather than straying to that sort of revenge minded position. Because that's what that is, the idea that you ought to hurt others because they've hurt you. it's an easy thing to say, because people like the idea of revenge, and it doesn't encourage anyone to think about one, what your goals are, and two, how to achieve those goals. It's a dead end way of thinking.
So yeah, when Dems get into power, what I want them to do is consider how best to obtain their goals. If the result of this is that they end up doing some or all of the things Republicans have done the last ten years, then I guess that's what happens. But I want that to be because they've determined it's the best strategic course, not because of some nebulous idea that Republicans somehow deserve it.
Ok I'm up too late and am not sure if that ramble makes any sense. Good night.
Edited by AceofSpades on Aug 31st 2018 at 1:50:13 PM
Meanwhile, in California laws are being proposed or pending for enaction...
- California Legislature passes major police transparency measures on internal investigations, body cameras
. It's actually several bills:
- Senate Bill 1421 removes confidentiality protection for a number of police officer records, such as these on misconduct. Hitherto California had one of the strictest rules in this regard.
- Assembly Bill 748 requires that footage such as that of police cameras has to be released within 45 days except in particular circumstances.
- In California's worst fire season ever, lawmakers ratify new efforts at prevention and assessing who's responsible
:
- Senate Bill 901 "The bill authorizes a five-year, $1-billion effort to reduce fire threats through tree and brush thinning programs that would include year-round prescribed fire. It would also streamline regulatory approval of fire reducing programs, and loosens some of the existing rules that govern the size of trees that can be removed."
- Senate Bill 1260 allows for more "restricted burns".
- Assembly Bill 2911 " gives electric utility workers new access to private land to trim trees and brush away from power lines, and boosts other efforts to create defensible space around structures. "
- Senate Bill 833 "would improve emergency alert systems in communities across the state. "
- California would bar immigration arrests inside courthouses under bill sent to Gov. Jerry Brown
:
- Senate Bill 349 would disallow immigration arrests in courtrooms.
- Tired teens could get to sleep in after legislators pass bill requiring later school start times
However, California won't link its electricity grid with other states as lawmakers reject pet project of Gov. Jerry Brown
the key concern being that such allows fossil fuel based electricity into the state and also gives an excuse to the federal government to interfere.
I can get behind that fourth bit. Back when I was in school, I lived out in the sticks, at the extreme end of the school bus's route. It took well over an hour, from the time I had to walk out my front door, to the time I reached homeroom in time for roll call.
"...had to walk five miles! And it was uphill, both ways! Through waist-deep snow, even in the summertime..."
Edited by pwiegle on Sep 1st 2018 at 7:29:47 AM
This Space Intentionally Left Blank.This is nice from the opposition to ICE:
https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2018/08/feds_arrest_22_faith_leaders_d.html
This is why I say Democrats are stuck in a Morton's Fork situation. If they obstruct Trump at every turn people will go "They're just doing what Republicans did to Obama! BOTH SIDES!" If they don't bother to fight the battles they know they can win people go "They're just letting Trump do whatever he wants! BOTH SIDES!" They just cannot win. People are determined to see "establishment" (read: experienced) Dems as losers no matter what.
Assuming we indeed don't flip the Senate this year, I have to wonder what the reactions from any self-proclaimed Progressive who does end up getting a seat will be when they see all of their bills dying there because the remaining Republicans don't like it. Should be a nice wake-up call, if nothing else.
i'm tired, my friendAlso, the Both Sides argument is a dumb one.
The Republicans are the ones who accuse Democrats of Both Sides when they obstruct Trump.
It's the Democrats who accuse the Democrats of Both Sides when they DON'T.
Clearly, you shouldn't care about the former!
To quote the wisdom of Wayne, "I mean, Led Zeppelin didn't write tunes that every one liked. They left that to the Bee Gees."
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Sep 1st 2018 at 5:55:09 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters....yes. I realize that. I wasn't arguing against that.
You're forgetting about the high road moderates who insist that Dems should play nice so as to avoid He Who Fights Monsters.
They can't. Any successful obstruction against Trump's agenda in Congress has been because enough Republicans actually stood up to him for a change.
Should we start caring when Republicans are put in Congress because their Democratic opponents weren't "sufficiently left" enough for some people? Because that what the "Both Sides" belief leads to.
Edited by PhysicalStamina on Sep 1st 2018 at 9:12:00 AM
i'm tired, my friendSaw this opinion elsewhere and wondered what your thoughts were.
Said opinion claimed that, in hindsight, it was actually a good thing that Trump was elected, because if Hillary won by the skin of her teeth, Congress would've still been R and thus would've impeded her agenda at every turn. Which would've made her look like an ineffective president, which would've led to an even more radical GOP candidate in 2020.
So maybe Trump is like bad-tasting medicine: We needed to take it and endure the bad taste so we can feel better later.
Edited by speedyboris on Sep 1st 2018 at 8:14:29 AM
Generally, I blame the side that isn't sufficiently left to be honest. Perfect may be the enemy of the good but is there any reason why the Democratic party moving more left is a bad thing?
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.Tell me when I said anything like that. What I'm saying is even if even if you think a candidate isn't "sufficiently left" they are still not a Republican, and unless they're an out-and-out Blue Dog, that is more than enough reason to vote for them anyway.
You may not feel good about it, but to be blunt, this isn't about you right now; this is about the future of our country. Like I said, barring Blue Dogs, your preferred Dem candidate not getting a shot at Congress is not a reason to sit out election day. Period.
Edited by PhysicalStamina on Sep 1st 2018 at 9:22:27 AM
i'm tired, my friend![]()
![]()
![]()
No. Absolutely not.
Saying "Maybe Trump being elected was better in the long run" is ignoring everything awful he's doing RIGHT NOW.
It's ignoring shit like the families being separated, the people losing their birth certificates and passports along Texas' border, the dismantling of NAFTA and with it any trust the rest of the world may have that the USA will honor trade agreements, the brinksmanship with Iran, the shitshow with North Korea, the blatant favoritism of white supremacists, the attacks on the free press...
Trump is not a bad tasting medicine. He's poison.
Edited by M84 on Sep 1st 2018 at 9:22:59 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised

Former Presidential candidate Gary Johnson? The guy who was just barely beating a literal dead gorilla in the polls during the 2016 campaign trail?
The guy who responded to an interview question about the situation in Syria with, "Who is Aleppo?"
I should hope we have little to fear from that idiot.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.