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Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#253626: Aug 30th 2018 at 3:03:45 PM

[up][up][up]Quite. I vastly prefer 2018 and the possibilities it offers then the extreme flaws of the 90's.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 30th 2018 at 6:05:51 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#253627: Aug 30th 2018 at 3:53:53 PM

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/08/america-soured-on-my-multiracial-family/567994/

A troubling article on international adoption and the current administration.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#253628: Aug 30th 2018 at 4:21:00 PM

This article was already posted in the race thread, last week I believe. I’ve got conflicted feelings about it. I completely agree with everything the author says about the abuse from the alt right, but I don’t like how easily he dismisses other criticisms around interracial adoption. I also get a little bit of the white savior, “give me cookies for adopting an Ethiopian child” vibe.

We quickly discovered that if you’re the white parents of an adopted black child, and you’re in the public eye at all, men and women will viciously criticize you for having the audacity to believe that you can raise your kid.

Yeah, so about this. I’ve read articles by black adults who were adopted by white families. Obviously, the experience varies for each individual. This NPR interview is with a black man had a mostly positive experience being raised by white parents, but said there were still some cultural difficulties. Then there’s this article by a black woman who feels torn about interracial adoption, because:

On one hand, I believe anyone that has the capability and desire to adopt, should adopt, and that the race of the baby you get, shouldn't be a factor. But on the other hand, the black hand. The hand of the transracial adoptee, I know that there are a lot of white people who adopt children of color for the wrong reasons, amaking it really hard to root for white adoptive parents.

She goes into further detail in this article about the things she wished her white parents understood about growing up black.

It’s obviously an issue with a lot of nuance; I wish the article addressed those nuances more.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#253629: Aug 30th 2018 at 5:02:36 PM

Reading that second article, it seems to come extremely close to saying that they culturally have nothing in common with their adoptive family. Which seems... odd? Like they're stripping down culture to something entirely hereditary, which seems quite at odds with how culture is otherwise defined. Overly reductionist?

Edited by RainehDaze on Aug 30th 2018 at 1:02:47 PM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#253630: Aug 30th 2018 at 5:05:43 PM

Racism is a thing. No matter how you raise a black child, racism will affect them during their lifetime in some way, shape or form. I can’t think of many hereditary aspects to culture, but one that comes to mind is how black hair types are incredibly different than white, as is proper hair care for black hair.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#253631: Aug 30th 2018 at 5:09:55 PM

My grandparents told me a story about after they adopted my uncle, a black kid from Texas. They met up with other families who adopted children and when they told those families where their kid was from, the other parents looked at them with a mixture of confusion and disgust. Those other parents had adopted their children from other countries and were bragging about it, and they couldn't understand why you would want to adopt some boring black kid from Texas.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#253632: Aug 30th 2018 at 5:10:12 PM

I think the man in question seems to be saying that as much as he liked his white family, racism poisoned his relationship with them. He had to make a choice, in his mind, between his broader black community or them.

Which I can't possibly comment on or even understand.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#253633: Aug 30th 2018 at 5:11:51 PM

[up] The article I'm referring to is by a woman, and she doesn't seem to have any issues with her family.

It's just the sheer extent of the "their culture isn't my culture because I'm not descended from the same people" thing she's got going on I find perplexing. What the hell definition of culture is that?

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#253634: Aug 30th 2018 at 5:13:04 PM

i'm referring to Chad Goller-Sojourner

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#253635: Aug 30th 2018 at 6:00:25 PM

Culture doesn't begin and end in the home. She identifies as black and was certainly treated as black by other people. So in that sense she is a part of the broader black culture. Which apparently her family decided to completely ignore.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#253636: Aug 30th 2018 at 6:23:20 PM

Read the last point again, where she explicitly says "their culture isn't my culture". This isn't just her parents not being aware of the points she raises, it's arriving at a downright strange concept of culture.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#253637: Aug 30th 2018 at 6:47:04 PM

I really don't understand what you're not getting about this. Do you mean to imply that African-American culture, the activities we tend to partake in and enjoy, the food we tend to eat, the music, film, and TV we tend to consume, is somehow interchangeable with that of Scottish/Danish-Americans?

Honestly, I would question your definition of culture.

i'm tired, my friend
CookingCat Since: Jul, 2018
#253638: Aug 30th 2018 at 6:49:33 PM

[up] African-American culture is closer to that of West Africa, same as the Caribbean, since both African-Americans and Caribs descended mostly from West Africans, but they still have plenty of European and other influences too.

Edited by CookingCat on Aug 30th 2018 at 6:50:56 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#253639: Aug 30th 2018 at 7:09:41 PM

While I do understand the point about wanting her family to better connect to Blackness, it does sound kind of weird how she apparently never really connected to her adopted families cultures and traditions as her own. She makes it sound almost like she was a guest for them.

That seems weird because it does sound like she loved doing them and her family.

Friendperson Since: May, 2018
#253640: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:14:12 PM

Since we're on the topic of racism, do you guys believe using hateful, derogatory, or generalizing language against white people is racism? It seems to be mostly acceptable. For example, if on a social media site someone said "I really hate how white the people are in this movie," or calling a white guy a "colonizer," which I see all the time, that usually is allowed to remain on the site. Does this count as hate speech, or is it only hate speech when directed at a smaller group?

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#253641: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:18:30 PM

There's a rather big difference between that and using outright racial slurs. Complaining about that is making a false equivalence. It's often used by white supremacists to paint themselves as the "real" victims.

When people complain about how "white" a movie is, that's usually because they're complaining about the movie presenting a version of reality where other races are practically non-existent. They're not complaining about white people being in the movie. They're complaining that the movie only has white people in it when the setting is such that this makes no sense.

Also, if we want to talk about racism in general, we have a Racism thread already.

Edited by M84 on Aug 30th 2018 at 11:25:52 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#253642: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:54:17 PM

Trump is threatening to withdraw from the WTO again.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45364150

Because how dare an organisation put up a token effort to punish the American habit of ignoring trade deals when it suits them?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#253643: Aug 30th 2018 at 8:56:59 PM

I generally try to avoid being alarmist, but given that today news broke that Hispanic/Latino U.S. citizens living near the Texas border are having their passports revoked and birth certificates invalidated, please read this twitter thread by Alexandra Erin summarizing some of the biggest news of the last few months, some of which has flown under the radar.

“A while back, I tweeted that in case anyone isn't clear, we are well past the "first they came for" point. This is a big story and I'm not sure it's possible for it to get enough attention.”

Edited by wisewillow on Aug 30th 2018 at 11:56:55 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#253644: Aug 30th 2018 at 9:08:37 PM

[up]It's not alarmist when the thing that is happening is genuinely alarming.

Quick question: how easily can anyone here prove they are a US citizen if their birth certificates are considered invalid?

The sad thing is...I'm just surprised it took this long for this to happen. I think we all knew the Trump administration would do this sooner or later.

Edited by M84 on Aug 31st 2018 at 12:12:41 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#253645: Aug 30th 2018 at 9:12:02 PM

You can’t. That’s the thing- if they refuse to acknowledge your passport and birth certificate as valid, it doesn’t matter whether those documents are real and genuine. That’s why due process is such a big deal, because once due process is ignored… It literally does not matter what documents you have or whether truth is on your side.

Edited by wisewillow on Aug 30th 2018 at 12:11:42 PM

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#253646: Aug 30th 2018 at 9:12:05 PM

Considering the people revoking the passports and certificates is the same group that started birther conspiracy theories...

Though it also makes me wonder if this is an attempt at voter suppression or something more insidious and...WW 2 style?

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Aug 30th 2018 at 9:12:15 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#253647: Aug 30th 2018 at 9:13:51 PM

I was thinking Trail of Tears, myself. Though in this case it's targetting US citizens.

Disgusted, but not surprised
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#253648: Aug 30th 2018 at 9:14:03 PM

[up][up]I think I mentioned in this thread earlier that a Latina friend of mine is having trouble registering voters in her community, because although they are citizens themselves, they are terrified that registering to vote will endanger their undocumented friends and relatives. And we live in Indiana.

Edited by wisewillow on Aug 30th 2018 at 12:13:47 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#253649: Aug 30th 2018 at 9:17:12 PM

Here's a Vox article about this issue:

Trump’s stripping of passports from some Texas Latinos, explained

It points out that this isn't an unprecedented power grab. This administration is taking advantage of power the executive branch always had. The only difference is that most past presidents practiced restraint.

That's the thing. The Trump administration is able to do this because of previous policies set by past administrations that never really expected someone like Trump becoming president.

Edited by M84 on Aug 31st 2018 at 12:21:15 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#253650: Aug 30th 2018 at 9:18:19 PM

While I do understand the point about wanting her family to better connect to Blackness, it does sound kind of weird how she apparently never really connected to her adopted families cultures and traditions as her own. She makes it sound almost like she was a guest for them.

That seems weird because it does sound like she loved doing them and her family.

This is my point. Specifically, this is the point I find particularly strange:

Like I said before, we are not white and we do not connect to white culture. Include us in the family but treating us like family.

Even ignoring the part where that second sentence makes no sense...

This seems at odds with most people I've met in my life and definitions of culture. She identifies everything about the culture she was raised in and is apparently excited about and enjoys as impossible to connect with. That it's somehow intrinsically tied to inheritance, because it doesn't seem from the information provided like she was adopted at an age where it's so difficult to become accustomed to such things. I wonder if part of this might also be the somewhat odd view (in my opinion) the USA seems to have about nationality. This is where I wonder what the definition of culture she's using for this article is supposed to be?

Though the article in general also has a very passive aggressive tone. Because if you assume she is speaking from experience, she somehow both loves her family but completely distrusts them. Odd combination.


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