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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#253451: Aug 28th 2018 at 9:37:30 PM

If militias worked, the US army wouldn't have kept getting bigger and bigger. Idiots, the lot of them.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#253452: Aug 28th 2018 at 9:39:41 PM

They're fucking terrorists. They're fucking terrorists!

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Aug 28th 2018 at 9:39:22 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#253453: Aug 28th 2018 at 9:41:03 PM

[up][up]George Washington hated working with them for a reason.

Disgusted, but not surprised
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#253454: Aug 28th 2018 at 9:50:35 PM

[up][up][up]Technically, America doesn’t have a domestic terrorism statue, and people who commit acts of terror tend to be charged on specific Crimes instead.

(Not trying to make any judgements here, just stating a fact.)

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#253455: Aug 28th 2018 at 9:55:11 PM

Domestic terrorism isn’t a specific crime anywhere that I know of, it’s a concept, not something you get charged with.

It’s a concept that is however defined in US law, by the PATRIOT Act.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#253456: Aug 28th 2018 at 10:08:37 PM

The uselessness of a militia for any purpose as repeatedly proven is another reason I hate the 2nd Amendment.

After the government had to increase the army again because militias are hopeless for defence reasons, you would think someone would point out that the amendment is completely meaningless. It was made for a reason and as it turns out that reason is about as much use in fighting a conflict as a piece of toilet paper with the amendment on it. But of course not.

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#253457: Aug 28th 2018 at 11:07:50 PM

Start using the Swiss system.tongue

Anyway, wouldn't the individual National Guards basically be the "militias" today? I always get the feeling that people get too tied up in the language of 1776.

Edited by TerminusEst on Aug 28th 2018 at 11:08:33 AM

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#253458: Aug 28th 2018 at 11:15:15 PM

[up] Basically.

In 1776, we didn’t really have a standing army or National Guard type organization, so State and local governments had to form their own Militas, to deal with uprisings (think the Whiskey Rebellion), or raids or whatnot, and were more often than not made up of local volunteers, hence the second amendment.

Edited by megaeliz on Aug 28th 2018 at 2:24:07 PM

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#253459: Aug 28th 2018 at 11:28:50 PM

I'd argue the Police are modern militias. IIRC the idea was that having a standing army enforce the law was too authoritarian, so having an armed local militia doing it was the liberal alternative.

Leviticus 19:34
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#253460: Aug 28th 2018 at 11:41:59 PM

Let's not call them militias. The last thing we need is to give police more of an excuse to militarize themselves.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#253461: Aug 29th 2018 at 12:14:21 AM

Police are militias by definition.

Though to be fair, I'm also not at all that against "police militarization" either. I mean, to be frank, SWAT teams carry weapons the military considers peashooters (the AR-15 for example, is a semi-automatic version of a weapon literally nicknamed "Peashooter" by the US army).

Leviticus 19:34
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#253462: Aug 29th 2018 at 12:21:21 AM

The police are not militias. They are not soldiers. They shouldn't be trying to act like soldiers.

Police are only meant to enforce local and State laws and ideally provide general assistance to the public. They are not by definition required to do what is required of militias.

Edited by M84 on Aug 30th 2018 at 3:24:39 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#253463: Aug 29th 2018 at 12:30:47 AM

Hm...*looks up definition of militia* Huh. Well, I guess you're right then-my understanding was that a "militia" meant "a group of people with guns outside of a formal military". It appears I was taught an incorrect definition, though.

Leviticus 19:34
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#253464: Aug 29th 2018 at 1:09:38 AM

I still say that if the 2A crowd wants to be considered a formal militia they should be subject to the same medical, physical and psychological screening as the regular military.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Imca (Veteran)
#253465: Aug 29th 2018 at 1:17:57 AM

Depends on which branch, the marines are obviously failing at the psycological ones, and I hear the reserves are pretty lax on physical

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#253466: Aug 29th 2018 at 1:23:49 AM

Some quick links of various stories that have come to my attention in the past few days:

As part of a plan by Betsy DeVos to address school shootings, the Education Department polled schools to see how many school related shooting took place in a year. (Defined as any gun going off on or around school property.) The Education Department claimed there were 240 such shootings.

NPR investigated and could confirm only 11. While about a quarter of those school didn't respond, likely due to the end of summer recess, more than 160 outright said that no such incident as reported by DeVos's poll took place. So it seems like a bit of BS to go ahead with the right wing agenda of arming schools and possibly undermining public schooling.

How many times per year does a gun go off in an American school?

We should know. But we don't.

This spring the U.S. Education Department reported that in the 2015-2016 school year, "nearly 240 schools ... reported at least 1 incident involving a school-related shooting." The number is far higher than most other estimates.

But NPR reached out to every one of those schools repeatedly over the course of three months and found that more than two-thirds of these reported incidents never happened. Child Trends, a nonpartisan nonprofit research organization, assisted NPR in analyzing data from the government's Civil Rights Data Collection.

We were able to confirm just 11 reported incidents, either directly with schools or through media reports.

In 161 cases, schools or districts attested that no incident took place or couldn't confirm one. In at least four cases, we found, something did happen, but it didn't meet the government's parameters for a shooting. About a quarter of schools didn't respond to our inquiries.

"When we're talking about such an important and rare event, [this] amount of data error could be very meaningful," says Deborah Temkin, a researcher and program director at Child Trends.

The Education Department, asked for comment on our reporting, noted that it relies on school districts to provide accurate information in the survey responses and says it will update some of these data later this fall. But, officials added, the department has no plans to republish the existing publication.

The campaign staff of Republican Representative Scott Taylor of Virginia have been alleged to have forged signatures and used the names of dead people to get an Independent candidate onto the ballot in hopes of splitting votes off from the Democrat in a close race.

Link 1 Link 2

    Excerpts from both links 
Signatures collected for an independent candidate by a Virginia Republican congressman's staffers listed 59 allegedly fraudulent signatures and the names of four dead people, according to a newspaper's investigation.

Campaign staffers for U.S. Rep. Scott Taylor, who is running for re-election in Virginia's 2nd District, collected the signatures to help get independent Shaun Brown on the ballot ahead of the tight November race, The Virginian-Pilot reported. The signatures were submitted just before the June 12 filing deadline.

Out of the 584 people listed, the newspaper was able to contact 115 listees or their family members. Of those reached, 59 declared the signatures to be fraudulent.

Democratic party officials, who are suing state elections officials to end Brown's candidacy, say Taylor's petition was an effort to siphon votes from Democratic candidate Elaine Luria. Brown goes to trial in October on charges that she defrauded the federal government through a summer meal program for children. She has said she didn't know Taylor's staff was collecting signatures.

Taylor's office said earlier this month that he was aware that his staff had volunteered to collect signatures for Brown. But he said he was not at all involved. He also said the campaign workers were collecting signatures because they thought Brown had been treated unfairly by Democrats.

Eddie Newkirk was in the process of moving his mother from Virginia Beach to Scottsdale, Ariz., where he lives, when he learned that his father’s signature had appeared on a political petition.

It was for Shaun Brown, who is running in November as an independent in the 2nd Congressional District against Republican U.S. Rep. Scott Taylor and Democratic challenger Elaine Luria.

The problem was that Floyd Newkirk died in 2016 at the age of 83, according to his obituary. He was a retired Marine, Korean War veteran and long-distance truck driver.

Eddie Newkirk was disheartened to hear that his deceased father’s name was used for political gain.

“I’m not surprised,” he said. “But I’m disappointed that someone would stoop to that level.”

The elder Newkirk was one of four Virginia Beach men who had died in recent years but whose names appeared on the petitions. The others were Hugh Doy, Melvin Chittum and R. Stuart Cake.

A team of reporters from The Virginian-Pilot conducted a two-week investigation of Brown’s petition signatures, trying to contact each voter listed on the dozens of pages submitted by five people paid by Taylor’s campaign.

The Pilot reached 115 of the 584 people listed – or a family member – by phone. Reporters were unable to contact the remaining 469, either because the name listed was illegible, no phone number could be found, or the person did not return messages.

Of those reached, 51 people – including several local Republican politicians – acknowledged signing the petition. Six others weren’t sure whether they did.

But 59 – more than half of those reached – declared the signatures to be fraudulent.

Some of the fake entries contained misspelled names. Others included an outdated address next to the name. One person was in the hospital being treated for throat cancer on the day he was reported to have signed. Another said she was out of town attending a graduation ceremony.

Many of those named were elderly people, including Floyd Felten of Virginia Beach, whose name also was misspelled. Felten’s daughter, Carol Campbell, said she’s sure that her father didn’t sign.

“He’s 102,” Campbell said. “He really can’t sign his name that well.”

Most of those who said they didn’t sign had no idea how their names ended up on the petitions. Some said they were Taylor supporters or Republicans, had given money to Taylor’s campaign, were on an email list for him or had agreed to put his campaign signs in their yards.

Mary Lou Ferralli said she worked the polls for Taylor in his last election and may have given money to his campaign. Like many of those contacted, she was upset that her name appeared to have been forged, but said she still plans to vote for Taylor.

A few said they had soured on Taylor as a result. “I voted for him,” said Iva Compton. “But I won’t vote for him again.”

On a similar note, Republicans have been using the Green Party in a similar way for a long time. This year alone, Green Party candidates in the Montana Senate race and a NY House race, (the district held by Chris Collins, who has since stepped down the race after being caught on insider trading charges) were found to have ties to the Republican party. In the case of Montana, the Green Party "candidate" was literally on the Republican payroll, and in New York the "candidate" once interned for Collins, only recently registered for the Green Party, the notary public who signed off on his documents and signatures is a former Republican State Assemblyman who was instrumental in getting him enough signatures to get onto the ballot, and the candidate himself quickly dropped out of the race once news organizations began investigating him and his ties to Republicans.

Oh, and there were probably shennaningans with regards to the Montana candidate's signatures to get onto the ballot similar to one pulled by the Virginia Republicans above

For an idea of how long this has been a thing, here's a story from 2001 about an 18 year old running on the Green Party ticket who was stunned to learn that his campaign was being bankrolled by the Republican party to siphon votes away from the Democrat. Here's an interview from 2006 with a Green Party candidate in Pennsylvania who was bankrolled by Republicans and was pretty open about the fact in the interview.

AMY GOODMAN: Carl Romanelli, the funding of your campaign is something I would like to address right now, coming from this unlikely source, prominent Republicans. Last week, we interviewed journalist Will Bunch of the Philadelphia Daily News, who reported on the issue. Let’s take a listen to what he said.

WILL BUNCH: The Green Party of Pennsylvania obviously doesn’t have $100,000. But, lo and behold, they got $100,000, and the way they did that was through an effort that was totally 100% — not even 99%, but 100% — funded by conservatives and Republicans, most of whom either have a history of directly supporting Rick Santorum, the Republican candidate in the Senate race here in Pennsylvania, or supporting causes that are close to Rick Santorum, either opposing abortion rights or that sort of thing. ...

AMY GOODMAN: Will Bunch of the Philadelphia Daily News. We don’t have much time, Carl Romanelli, but getting money from Erik Prince, head of Blackwater, and a top aide to Frist and a lobbyist for Halliburton, your explanation?

CARL ROMANELLI: Yes, well, the bottom line is that I needed money. I have been trying to fundraise for the Greens for five years, and Democrats and progressives just aren’t giving us any. It was my intention to elevate the level of discourse on the issues in this senatorial race. And let’s not give Rick Santorum credit. Let’s not blame the Green Party. Carl Romanelli put this operation together, and I had the understanding with a handful of Republican friends of mine who helped me that we were both using each other. I needed money, because I had none, and I was well aware that they thought that my presence would help their candidate. I didn’t ascribe to that point of view, but it was mutual, because for five years the Green Party of Pennsylvania has been lobbying our legislature for more fair ballot access and for campaign reforms. It’s fallen on deaf ears.

A former CIA officer who is now a Democratic candidate in Virginia says that Republicans including Paul Ryan improperly shared sensitive documents with information from her at the CIA with Republican aligned Super PAC in an attempt to attack her

    Judging by their ability to stop so low, Republicans do a good job of staying limber 
A former C.I.A. officer running for Congress accused a super PAC aligned with Speaker Paul D. Ryan on Tuesday of improperly obtaining her entire federal security clearance application — a highly sensitive document containing extensive personal information — and then using it for political purposes.

Abigail Spanberger, the Democratic candidate challenging Representative Dave Brat of Virginia, sent a cease-and-desist letter to Corry Bliss, the executive director of the Congressional Leadership Fund, which has raised more than $100 million to help Republicans in the midterm elections. She demanded that the super PAC destroy all copies of the form and agree to not use the information in any fashion.

“I write as a former civil servant and as an American, in shock and anger, that you have tried to exploit my service to our country by exposing my most personal information in the name of politics,” she wrote.

The super PAC released a statement on Tuesday strongly denying Ms. Spanberger’s charge, saying that the document was obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request filed with the United States Postal Service by America Rising, a separate Republican-aligned research firm.

“C.L.F. follows the letter of the law in examining any candidate’s background and Ms. Spanberger was no different,” Courtney Alexander, a spokeswoman for the group, said in the statement.

The group also released a portion of the security clearance application, blacking out some personal information.

Graham Wilson, a lawyer for Ms. Spanberger’s campaign, said that explanation, which laid the mistake on the Postal Service, did not ring true. “In this unredacted form, this is not a document that the government can provide under the Privacy Act,” he said.

Ms. Spanberger, 39, said in the letter that she had “clear evidence” that the Congressional Leadership Fund had provided a copy of her security clearance application to “at least one news outlet,” adding, “I am not aware of any legal way that C.L.F. could have this document.” In an interview, she said that she suspected that the group was trying to exploit a brief time when she taught at a private Islamic school funded by Saudi Arabia.

The super PAC validated that suspicion in its response, going on at some length to try to link the school — called “Terror High” in an earlier news article — to terrorist activity.

16 States are filing a petition that says that private companies should be allowed to fire LGBTQ+ people for their sexuality or gender identity, stating it isn't protected under the 1964 Civil Rights Act

Elizabeth Warren introduces an anti-corruption bill that includes Presidential candidates giving 8 years of tax returns, putting all their personal assets/businesses in a blind trust, and a lifetime ban on lawmakers from becoming lobbyists

Leaked emails link Homeland Security analyst (who has since resigned) with White Nationalist groups

In the past two years, leaders of an emboldened white nationalism have burst into the forefront of national politics and coalesced around an “alt-right” subculture as they have endeavored to make their ideology part of the mainstream. Recent developments have shed light on previously unknown connections between white nationalist activists and the Trump administration. Now, the Department of Homeland Security has denounced “all forms of violent extremism” following the resignation of a policy analyst who had connections with white nationalists, according to leaked emails obtained by The Atlantic.

The emails show that the official, Ian M. Smith, had in the past been in contact with a group that included known white nationalists as they planned various events. On one of the email threads, the address of alt-right white nationalist leader Richard Spencer is included as well as Smith’s. Another group of recipients includes Smith as well as Jared Taylor, the founder of the white nationalist publication American Renaissance, who calls himself a “white advocate.”

The messages, given to The Atlantic by a source to whom they were forwarded, paint a picture of the social scene in which white nationalists gathered for an “Alt-Right Toastmasters” night in 2016, and organized dinner parties and visits from out-of-town friends. And they provide a glimpse into how a group that included hardcore white nationalists were able to operate relatively incognito in the wider world, particularly in conservative circles. The revelation of these messages comes amid increasing scrutiny of white nationalists’ ties to the administration; a White House speechwriter named Darren Beattie left the administration after CNN reported earlier this month that he had attended a conference with white nationalists in 2016. The Washington Post reported last week that Peter Brimelow, the publisher of white nationalist website V Dare, had attended a party at top White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow’s house. Kudlow told the Post he was unaware of Brimelow's views and would not have invited him had he known about them.

After being reached for comment about The Atlantic’s reporting, Smith said in an email: “I no longer work at DHS as of last week and didn't attend any of the events you've mentioned.” Neither he nor DHS disputed that it is him on the emails in question.

...

According to sources with knowledge of Smith’s role at DHS, he was a policy analyst working on immigration. He used to work for the Immigration Reform Law Institute, an anti-immigration legal organization associated with the right-wing Federation for American Immigration Reform. From 2014 to 2017 he wrote a number of columns on immigration for the National Review. (National Review.com editor Charles Cooke didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment).

Smith’s public writings showcased a right-wing perspective on immigration, such as opposing the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, which ended national quotas for immigrants and which Smith argued was responsible for the “barely governable system we have today,” opposing sanctuary cities, and applauding the controversial SB-1070 anti-illegal immigration law in Arizona.

In an interview with the website FOIA Advisor in 2016, Smith said he “was born just outside Seattle, grew up in Vancouver, British Columbia, and lived in Beijing, Hong Kong, and Sydney, Australia for many years.” In that interview, he described his role at the Immigration Law Reform Institute thusly: “I work at a nonprofit law firm that represents people harmed by the government’s failure to regulate immigration.”

Edited by TheWanderer on Aug 29th 2018 at 4:58:28 AM

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#253467: Aug 29th 2018 at 2:39:02 AM

Now, the Department of Homeland Security has denounced “all forms of violent extremism”

Except for ICE, of course. They can go right on doing what they're doing.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#253468: Aug 29th 2018 at 3:18:38 AM

California Assembly advances 100% clean energy bill. It's aiming to obtain 100% of the state's (I am not sure if it's the state as a whole or just its government) power from clean sources by 2045.

Officer convicted in killing of 15-year-old Jordan Edwards — a rare outcome in police shootings

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#253469: Aug 29th 2018 at 3:26:38 AM

[up]x8 I see that argument thrown around a lot when it comes to the AR-15, and while it’s true it’s not technically “high-caliber” or “high-powered” by the actual definition of the terminology that doesn’t mean it’s not powerful. AR-15 pattern rifles are the rifle of choice for basically every modern military for a reason.

I don’t mind police carrying long arms in certain situations, but it’s a little disingenuous to say A Rs are fine and not really that powerful.

The militia concept stopped being viable when warfare started industrializing. When the constitution was written it was totally possible for a bunch of dudes with rifles to go out and win a war. The late 1800s and 1900s changed that.

Edited by archonspeaks on Aug 29th 2018 at 3:29:13 AM

They should have sent a poet.
Imca (Veteran)
#253470: Aug 29th 2018 at 3:43:15 AM

The AR-15 is honestly one of the better rifles to train newbies with, it isn't used by the military because its powerful, its used by the military because it is gentle and forgiving... as ironic as this sounds.

It is light weight, the recoil is minimal, it is very easy to control and use properly, all things that make it great a a starting rifle for people new to guns... and also why the military uses it.

They have to carry it around for days on end, and fire off hundreds of rounds of ammunition out of it, so the comfort and weight is why it is chosen.

Objectively speaking? Its on the weaker end of guns... and old 5.56 ammo, and civilian .223 ammo have issues penetrating dry wall... you can ask military checkpoint guards about it and get stories back about how the person they tried to stop running a checkpoint was saved by the glass or the sear in there car, not bullet proof just the plastic sandwich. (I hear modern 5.56 ammo has solved this issue but the reputation has never gone away, and .223... the civilian version likely has not)

Your standard .306 hunting rifle has way more power behind it then the .223 fired by an AR-15.

Being used by militaries doesn't mean something is powerful, it means it "good enough" and it is cheap.

Also, the AR-15 isn't the primary design used outside of the US Military either, that is the AR-18 (FN 2000, G36 for germany, Howa 89 for us are all a AR 18 with various modified externals)... same light weight low power round, but to claim that it is the AR-15 demonstraits the lack of understanding that makes attempts to regulate kryptonite to gun owners.

Edited by Imca on Aug 29th 2018 at 3:53:28 AM

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#253471: Aug 29th 2018 at 3:45:24 AM

Fuck those 16 states. Or, more specifically, fuck those assholes trying to worm their way into being able to legally discriminate against people.

Do not obey in advance.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#253472: Aug 29th 2018 at 3:46:01 AM

[up][up] This is probably better suited for the gun thread, but those issues have always been myths. Conventional thinking on rifle rounds when the M16 was adopted was that bigger is better, and as a result many legends about the 5.56 round were spawned and persist to this day.

It will definitely shoot through glass and drywall and car seats, modern versions can even penetrate ceramic body armor at range. Even though it’s not a very large round it moves quickly and does a lot of damage to flesh and organs. That’s kind of the whole reason behind its popularity, it’s relatively small and lightweight but still has respectable stopping power.

The actual complaint you’ll hear is performance at range, beyond like 700m it loses a lot of its effectiveness. In Afghanistan, where enemies were frequently engaged at ranges well exceeding that, there was a lot of criticism of the 5.56. It’s quite deadly inside its effective range, though that’s only about 500-600ish meters. Strictly speaking a .308 may have more muzzle energy, but those rounds are meant for long range shooting and don’t produce the kinds of wounds intermediate rounds do.

Most of the time when you hear the “A Rs aren’t actually powerful” argument it’s someone trying to gunsplain why they shouldn’t be regulated to someone who isn’t familiar with the specifics.

You’re incorrect about the final point as well, so no need to accuse me of a lack of understanding. Here’s a list [1] of every country that uses AR-15 derivatives in their military, and that list has expanded greatly since the date the article was published. AR-18 derivatives aren’t uncommon, but there’s only really a handful of them.

Edited by archonspeaks on Aug 29th 2018 at 4:01:20 AM

They should have sent a poet.
Imca (Veteran)
#253473: Aug 29th 2018 at 3:57:11 AM

Because its going after completely the wrong target, the AR-15 is scary and black, but makes up the minority of gun crimes.

You know what makes up 70% of them? Hand guns.

You know how much legislation actually focuses on handguns and not bullshit like "assault weapons" about none.

Hand guns are easy to conceal, hold a large amount of ammunition, and do just fine against unarmored targets which don't care much if the bullet is .38 special, or .50 bmg any way.

Ideally hand gun ownership would be nearly totally barred, since they have very little practical purpose besides crime.... inferior for hunting, more painful to shoot, accuracy that makes them bad at target competitions... there only point is that you can put them every where without adding bulk and hide them.

But no, its always targeting the long rifles because they look scarier.

Effective legislation that targets the problem areas IS needed, but chasing things that just look scary is the quickest way to alienate the people that are going to need to be appealed too.

Edited by Imca on Aug 29th 2018 at 4:09:06 AM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#253474: Aug 29th 2018 at 4:06:36 AM

Well, that and the fact that the goddamn Heller opinion makes it nearly impossible to regulate handguns.

Imca (Veteran)
#253475: Aug 29th 2018 at 4:08:20 AM

Heller Opinion? Let me guess?

Another way the NRA has done its best to make effective gun control regulation impossible. :/

Edited by Imca on Aug 29th 2018 at 4:15:10 AM


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