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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
@wisewillow: I'm still a strong supporter of civilian gun-ownership (and think that mass shootings are a very bad way to understand the problem of gun violence), mind you, but here's some overall factors:
- 1: "This is getting kinda out of hand". I assumed that mass shootings were going to die down after a while, but the problem's been getting kinda worse. By about the Pulse Shooting I decided it probably time to start thinking of something.
- 2: A better understanding of what gun control is. I assume gun control advocates were mostly trying to disarm the populace in general rather than just a few policies to keep guns falling into the right hands.
- 3: A realization of what I think the problem is: While mass shooters rarely get their firearms legally anyways (which is part of why I was critical of this notion), these illegally obtained firearms tend to be stolen from legal owners and the like.
- 4: A realization that putting armed citizens in certain areas, like schools, probably wouldn't help for various reasons.
My overall opinion currently is along the lines of "there should be some kind of penalty for mishandling of firearms resulting in them ending up in the wrong hands".
Leviticus 19:34Frankly, if you want to keep someone from owning a gun, you would most likely not be able to do so. Germany, which has pretty strict ownership laws (and a particularly low rate of gun deaths), also has a lot of gun owners (mostly due to a long hunting tradition in the country, there are even celebrations centred around the best shooter) AND a particularly high number of illegal weapons in the country. So the hard-core criminals, they still will have weapons. Stricter Gun ownership laws in the US won't stop drive-by shootings, for example (it might minimize them, though).
But the random instable person will meet extra-barriers before being able to obtain a gun. This can prevent suicide by gun, amok runs with a gun, you know, everything which doesn't lend itself to pre-planning.
And it protects children. In the US a huge percentage of gun deaths are simply children who got to the gun of their parents and accidentally shot themselves or a friend while playing around with it. Or some idiot in general not being careful enough.
x5 Thanks for explaining.
My biggest thing is banning guns, at least for x years or with y conditions, for domestic violence charges and convictions. There should also be better laws and enforcement for people who give away or sell guns to friends/relatives without due diligence.
I also strongly support some form of gun licensing and/or insurance. Gun safety is just as important as car safety- I don’t want a 22 year old running around with a car or a gun unless they know basics for proper use and safety.
Edited by wisewillow on Aug 28th 2018 at 5:44:54 AM
Yeah the NRA isn’t controlled by the gun industry. It’s become a self sustaining beast that answers to no one, with the possible exception of Russia, who has been found to be funding the NRA.
When the NRA and the gun industry fight the NRA is the one giving orders.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranI... honestly think the US needs storage laws on fire arms like we had, but I also don't know how you could posibly enforce them in both the political climate (No trust of police, which for such a system to work need to occasionaly check there being stored right) and the logistical reality (huge parts of the country have nothing in them)
I am agianst a ban on firearms, no nation has a total ban, not even we did.... but more restrictions are needed, and like, they need to be effective restrictions.
Basic ideas on my end.
- tighter control on the flow of ammunition, while allowing ranges to distribute as much as needed to people currently using them.
- Mandatory gun safety courses, and liscencing.
- Patching the gun show loop hole.
- No ban on magazine size, or weapon caliber.
- HOWEVER copying the tiered system we used back home where you start out only being able to own a .22 or a shotgun, and you get access to bigger guns (and in this case magizines) by demonstrating you have the proficiency and safety record to actually own them... no need to ban the .50 calibers, or 100 round magazines when the only people to have them are professionals... with a proven saftey record
Ideas that would be nice, but are impractical.
- Enforcement on proper storage
Edited by Imca on Aug 28th 2018 at 3:15:03 AM
People usually trust the police in the US, though it depends on where all you live and who you are. Though I don't think people would be keen on say, having police come into their homes to check that their firearms are being stored properly and what have you.
Proper storage laws are necessary.
Also, a one week waiting period. Some states already have it, and by introducing it, the number of suicides per gun has fallen. As well as the overall suicide rate.
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I can cite you a German example. The shooter of Munich two years ago had purchased his weapons on the dark net.
Edited by Swanpride on Aug 28th 2018 at 3:37:18 AM
x5 Mind backing that with a source? I’m gonna take a wild guess and say that the stats are WILDLY different depending on race and/or political beliefs.
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Blame Scalia, who basically ignored over a hundred years of precedent because guns= sacred. I’m not even exaggerating much here; his opinion in Heller is a monstrosity of bad reasoning.
Edited by wisewillow on Aug 28th 2018 at 6:39:56 AM
Germany is actually a good model for weapons ownership, in certain ways they're less restrictive than the US (they don't have an NFA equivalent) but they're very strict on the number of guns that can be owned, keeping track of those guns, and where they can be used.
Getting rid of large portions of the NFA and assault weapons bans in exchange for strict permitting and weapon registries would be my ideal solution.
Edited by archonspeaks on Aug 28th 2018 at 3:48:30 AM
They should have sent a poet.

The death toll from Hurricane Maria was just revised to 2975 people.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/28/health/puerto-rico-gw-report-excess-deaths/index.html
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.