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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#253376: Aug 28th 2018 at 2:19:50 PM

The death toll from Hurricane Maria was just revised to 2975 people.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/28/health/puerto-rico-gw-report-excess-deaths/index.html

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#253377: Aug 28th 2018 at 2:19:51 PM

[up][up][up]What changed your mind, if you don’t mind me asking?

[up] Jesus Christ.

Edited by wisewillow on Aug 28th 2018 at 5:20:53 AM

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#253378: Aug 28th 2018 at 2:23:37 PM

[up][up][up] Let’s not absolve the NRA of responsibility here; they’re not run by Russia, they got utterly played by Russia because their politics are so horrifically predictable.

They should have sent a poet.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#253379: Aug 28th 2018 at 2:28:27 PM

3000 dead.

Trump's approach to Dubya levels of human cost grows.

He's got a long way to go but NO ONE should have died beyond the initial event.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#253380: Aug 28th 2018 at 2:35:19 PM

@wisewillow: I'm still a strong supporter of civilian gun-ownership (and think that mass shootings are a very bad way to understand the problem of gun violence), mind you, but here's some overall factors:

  1. 1: "This is getting kinda out of hand". I assumed that mass shootings were going to die down after a while, but the problem's been getting kinda worse. By about the Pulse Shooting I decided it probably time to start thinking of something.

  2. 2: A better understanding of what gun control is. I assume gun control advocates were mostly trying to disarm the populace in general rather than just a few policies to keep guns falling into the right hands.

  3. 3: A realization of what I think the problem is: While mass shooters rarely get their firearms legally anyways (which is part of why I was critical of this notion), these illegally obtained firearms tend to be stolen from legal owners and the like.

  4. 4: A realization that putting armed citizens in certain areas, like schools, probably wouldn't help for various reasons.

My overall opinion currently is along the lines of "there should be some kind of penalty for mishandling of firearms resulting in them ending up in the wrong hands".

Leviticus 19:34
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#253381: Aug 28th 2018 at 2:39:10 PM

I think the "response" to Hurricane Maria is, by far, the worst of the Trump's Admins crimes. This is Negligence at its worst.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#253382: Aug 28th 2018 at 2:39:52 PM

Honestly, a lot of problems could be fixed if we'd just properly enforce already existing gun laws. Like actually taking away guns from people who have a domestic violence conviction or some sort of restraining order.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#253383: Aug 28th 2018 at 2:41:29 PM

No, the NRA is getting a shit ton of money from the Russians.

They're very much working in their favor at this point.

Oh really when?
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#253384: Aug 28th 2018 at 2:44:49 PM

Frankly, if you want to keep someone from owning a gun, you would most likely not be able to do so. Germany, which has pretty strict ownership laws (and a particularly low rate of gun deaths), also has a lot of gun owners (mostly due to a long hunting tradition in the country, there are even celebrations centred around the best shooter) AND a particularly high number of illegal weapons in the country. So the hard-core criminals, they still will have weapons. Stricter Gun ownership laws in the US won't stop drive-by shootings, for example (it might minimize them, though).

But the random instable person will meet extra-barriers before being able to obtain a gun. This can prevent suicide by gun, amok runs with a gun, you know, everything which doesn't lend itself to pre-planning.

And it protects children. In the US a huge percentage of gun deaths are simply children who got to the gun of their parents and accidentally shot themselves or a friend while playing around with it. Or some idiot in general not being careful enough.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#253385: Aug 28th 2018 at 2:45:14 PM

[up]x5 Thanks for explaining.

My biggest thing is banning guns, at least for x years or with y conditions, for domestic violence charges and convictions. There should also be better laws and enforcement for people who give away or sell guns to friends/relatives without due diligence.

I also strongly support some form of gun licensing and/or insurance. Gun safety is just as important as car safety- I don’t want a 22 year old running around with a car or a gun unless they know basics for proper use and safety.

Edited by wisewillow on Aug 28th 2018 at 5:44:54 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#253386: Aug 28th 2018 at 2:46:39 PM

Yeah the NRA isn’t controlled by the gun industry. It’s become a self sustaining beast that answers to no one, with the possible exception of Russia, who has been found to be funding the NRA.

When the NRA and the gun industry fight the NRA is the one giving orders.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#253387: Aug 28th 2018 at 2:58:58 PM

More restrictions on guns doesn't stop criminals from owning guns, but it gives you another thing to charge them with.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#253388: Aug 28th 2018 at 3:00:30 PM

Most guns that criminals use were at one point purchased legally by lawful citizens. Monitoring those sales and getting a proper national registry will do wonders to help curb the amount of firearms that make it into criminal hands.

Oh really when?
Imca (Veteran)
#253389: Aug 28th 2018 at 3:15:12 PM

I... honestly think the US needs storage laws on fire arms like we had, but I also don't know how you could posibly enforce them in both the political climate (No trust of police, which for such a system to work need to occasionaly check there being stored right) and the logistical reality (huge parts of the country have nothing in them)

I am agianst a ban on firearms, no nation has a total ban, not even we did.... but more restrictions are needed, and like, they need to be effective restrictions.

Basic ideas on my end.

  • tighter control on the flow of ammunition, while allowing ranges to distribute as much as needed to people currently using them.
  • Mandatory gun safety courses, and liscencing.
  • Patching the gun show loop hole.
  • No ban on magazine size, or weapon caliber.
  • HOWEVER copying the tiered system we used back home where you start out only being able to own a .22 or a shotgun, and you get access to bigger guns (and in this case magizines) by demonstrating you have the proficiency and safety record to actually own them... no need to ban the .50 calibers, or 100 round magazines when the only people to have them are professionals... with a proven saftey record

Ideas that would be nice, but are impractical.

  • Enforcement on proper storage

Edited by Imca on Aug 28th 2018 at 3:15:03 AM

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#253390: Aug 28th 2018 at 3:27:25 PM

[up]People usually trust the police in the US, though it depends on where all you live and who you are. Though I don't think people would be keen on say, having police come into their homes to check that their firearms are being stored properly and what have you.

Leviticus 19:34
eyebones Since: Apr, 2004
#253391: Aug 28th 2018 at 3:27:48 PM

Could someone cite an American mass shooting that used illegally purchased weapons? I'm not coming up with one.

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. — H.L. Mencken
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#253392: Aug 28th 2018 at 3:31:51 PM

Most of them aren't, it's why regulating and monitoring all legal sales has to be the way forward.

Oh really when?
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#253393: Aug 28th 2018 at 3:33:25 PM

But we're not allowed to talk about ensuring the Well Regulated Militia should be Well Regulated because reasons.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#253394: Aug 28th 2018 at 3:34:31 PM

Proper storage laws are necessary.

Also, a one week waiting period. Some states already have it, and by introducing it, the number of suicides per gun has fallen. As well as the overall suicide rate.

[up][up][up] I can cite you a German example. The shooter of Munich two years ago had purchased his weapons on the dark net.

Edited by Swanpride on Aug 28th 2018 at 3:37:18 AM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#253395: Aug 28th 2018 at 3:35:45 PM

[up]x5 Mind backing that with a source? I’m gonna take a wild guess and say that the stats are WILDLY different depending on race and/or political beliefs.

[up][up] Blame Scalia, who basically ignored over a hundred years of precedent because guns= sacred. I’m not even exaggerating much here; his opinion in Heller is a monstrosity of bad reasoning.

Edited by wisewillow on Aug 28th 2018 at 6:39:56 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#253396: Aug 28th 2018 at 3:36:32 PM

The right to bear arms should really be a 'responsibility or privilege' instead of something that everyone is entitled to,though changing the wording in this case probably won't change much

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#253397: Aug 28th 2018 at 3:38:04 PM

Also a ban on private sales if no licensing system is put in place, you shouldn’t be able to transfer a deadly weapon to someone with no background checks.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#253398: Aug 28th 2018 at 3:46:10 PM

Germany is actually a good model for weapons ownership, in certain ways they're less restrictive than the US (they don't have an NFA equivalent) but they're very strict on the number of guns that can be owned, keeping track of those guns, and where they can be used.

Getting rid of large portions of the NFA and assault weapons bans in exchange for strict permitting and weapon registries would be my ideal solution.

Edited by archonspeaks on Aug 28th 2018 at 3:48:30 AM

They should have sent a poet.
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#253399: Aug 28th 2018 at 3:48:47 PM

[up]You also need separate licences to own (and there are very specific rules for storing them, and how) and carrying them (beyond a clear A to B transport). Getting the latter is *really hard*

"You can reply to this Message!"
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#253400: Aug 28th 2018 at 3:58:39 PM

Moved to the top of the next page.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Aug 28th 2018 at 12:03:30 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

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