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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#253351: Aug 28th 2018 at 11:38:09 AM

Congratulations, gun control movement. By not making this an issue in 2014 midterms and 2016, every country in the world will now be threatened by untraceable firearms for the next 30-40 years, with no effective regulation possible without PATRIOT Act-style surveillance, and millennials in America will have no other option but to leave the country just to avoid getting shot.

I love how you're blaming gun control advocates for the actions of gun producers, oh wait did I say love?

Hate would probably be a better word smile

There's a weird defensiveness that people who didn't vote for Hillary could never have voted for Hillary.

Nice strawman, my position has been that Democratic voters who didn't vote (i.e people who didn't vote for Hillary) could've and thus should be focused on when talking about what lost her the election.

It's purely Stein voters that I don't believe would've realistically voted for her in noteworthy numbers.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 28th 2018 at 2:39:34 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#253352: Aug 28th 2018 at 11:39:20 AM

[up]When gun control advocates don't vote, they're just as responsible as the gun lobby for gun violence.

It's like how Sanders voters are responsible for Trump because they didn't like Hillary Clinton.

Edited by Mario1995 on Aug 28th 2018 at 2:41:44 PM

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#253353: Aug 28th 2018 at 11:41:24 AM

[up]Nonsense, responsibility is not a binary between yes and no and blaming gun control advocates shows some majorly screwed priorities on your part.

Failing to stop something is a failure but it's not as bad as actually doing that. That's like blaming Democrats for Republican actions because they couldn't stop it.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#253354: Aug 28th 2018 at 11:42:58 AM

I'm willing to forgive Castro a certain amount due to much of what he did being America's fault or driven by legitimate fear of American action (we had consistently behaved worse towards Cuba than Castro ever did), but that only goes to a point.

I think my viewpoint is best summed up by my eulogy in the RIP thread: "Rest in peace, you son of a bitch."

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#253355: Aug 28th 2018 at 11:57:10 AM

How many times do we have to go over this, 3D printed guns are not a problem.

They're more dangerous to whatever idiot bought one and tried to print it than any would be victim.

Oh really when?
Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#253356: Aug 28th 2018 at 12:01:05 PM

The fear is that technology will improve to where 3D-printed guns will be as functional as real guns, and there's every reason to believe we're heading to that point.

Oh, and there's already a fully functional 3D gun out there. That's how advanced we've gotten.

Edited by Mario1995 on Aug 28th 2018 at 3:00:47 PM

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#253357: Aug 28th 2018 at 12:03:44 PM

Again, we've talked about this multiple times. There is zero threat from 3D printed weapons.

The equipment needed to make the handgun in the article requires a decent sized warehouse and costs enough to bankrupt most small businesses.

Take the time to learn about the problems and the topics before going in hysterics.

A complete lack of knowledge about firearms and how to regulate them is by far and away the biggest problem with gun control advocates. It's how we get absolutely useless shit like the assault weapons bans. We can't pass laws if our side doesn't even know what it's talking about.

Edited by LeGarcon on Aug 28th 2018 at 3:05:33 PM

Oh really when?
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#253358: Aug 28th 2018 at 12:14:52 PM

For those interested, here's the full text of the flag-lowering proclamation.

As a mark of respect for the memory and longstanding service of Senator John Sidney Mc Cain III, I hereby order, by the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, that the flag of the United States shall be flown at half-staff at the White House and upon all public buildings and grounds, at all military posts and naval stations, and on all naval vessels of the Federal Government in the District of Columbia and throughout the United States and its Territories and possessions until sunset, on the day of interment. I also direct that the flag shall be flown at half staff for the same period at all United States embassies, legations, consular offices, and other facilities abroad, including all military facilities and naval vessels and stations.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this twenty-seventh day of August, in the year of our Lord two thousand eighteen, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and forty-third.

DONALD J. TRUMP

I gotta wonder who drafted that for him, because holy hell no one writes like that anymore, let alone Trump.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#253359: Aug 28th 2018 at 12:27:23 PM

Damn, talk about over compensation...

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#253360: Aug 28th 2018 at 12:38:02 PM

Quick questions: what’s the general view on Fidel Castro these days? I know his reputation as a dictator can be exaggerated in conservative circles, but I ask because I was confused why there was an abundance of rather gentle farewell remarks from Democrats and left-leaning people. In particular, I felt confused when I saw someone on Twitter that proclaims themselves to be a radical leftist rage tweeting over Mc Cain’s death, angry that he got an outpouring of grief and whitewashing while Castro didn’t.

Other question: how do people see The Young Turks around here and Jimmy Dore in particular? They proclaim to be left leaning but Dore being cuddly over Trump and conspiracy theorists, along with the group’s real love of Jill Stein and whitewashing Bernie Sanders makes me think otherwise. Also brought up because I saw the same Castro worship from them and rage over Mc Cain’s tributes.

I think right wingers believe there’s a lot more love for Castro in the American left wing than actually exists, unless I’m just missing all the fun left wing meetings. winktongue That said, I’m sure some people may have embraced him for various reasons, including just the perversity of “Our opponents hate him, so he can’t be all bad.”

Castro was a bastard, no doubt about it. If you completely divorce morality from your mind you can make a case that at least some of what he did was strategically necessary; the U.S. was doing overthrowing Central and South American countries like it was going out of style using everything from backing armed and incredibly repressive revolutionaries to propaganda campaigns, (such as subverting a country’s free press by buying up newspapers and then turning them into mouthpieces for the U.S.) to subverting elections to every once in a while ever so carefully hinting that countries could find themselves directly overthrown if they didn’t toe the line the U.S. set, whether politically or in terms of letting U.S. companies do whatever they wanted with that country’s natural resources.

So of course to depose a U.S. backed regime practically on the doorstep of the U.S. that had been a colony of the States in everything but name for generations was going to take drastic measures to seize and hold onto power. Of course Castro certainly went far beyond what even those drastic measures required and committed a lot of atrocities that had nothing to do with all that, (see his homophobia, for example) and kept it up long after the U.S. pretty much lost all interest in him, mostly so his head didn’t wind up on a spike should the political winds of the island ever shift.

So fuck that guy.

McCain, I’d argue, is getting too much whitewashing from politicians and the press, but at the same time I think some online liberals and progressives are going the other way. I’d agree with him on virtually nothing other than the corrupting power of money in politics and the utter evil of torture, and some of his positions and beliefs (foreign policy hawkishness and domestic “small government” beliefs, as 2 examples) caused legitimate suffering around the world for millions, in ways that the man himself would almost certainly never own up to or believe.

Despite that he had his moments of honor, reasonableness, and he was far from the worst of the Republican Party, and did more than virtually any Republican official to stand up to the worst elements of that party. Saying “he was better than the Tea Party, the Freedom Caucus, the alt-Right, and Trump” may be damning with awfully faint praise, but it’s still something and it’s still true.

He’s no paragon, (for me) and he’s no Complete Monster Sith Lord either, even if the press is far too kind to him.

Young Turks is trash. Basically the Glenn Beck of the left. After needing more than half an hour to type this much on my phone, however, I’m not inclined to go into more detail on these subjects right now.

I gotta wonder who drafted that for him, because holy hell no one writes like that anymore, let alone Trump.

My first thought is Stephen Miller, sounds like the sort of semi-royal, semi-fascist generalissimo purple prose that he’d get off to. Probably not enough blatant illegality, xenophobia, or ranting about janitors though.

Edited by TheWanderer on Aug 30th 2018 at 8:57:47 AM

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#253361: Aug 28th 2018 at 12:43:12 PM

Despite that he had his moments of honor, reasonableness, and he was far from the worst of the Republican Party, and did more than virtually any Republican official to stand up to the worst elements of that party. Saying “he was better than the Tea Party, the Freedom Caucus, the alt-Right, and Trump” may be damning with awfully faint praise, but it’s still something and it’s still true.

The fundamental problem with this kind of argument is that it posits that Republicans who occasionally demonstrate the barest shred of human decency should be lionized, which I think is rather terrible in that it allows Republicans like Mc Cain who are simply more subtle about their awfulness to be whitewashed and used as evidence for "reasonable" and "moderate" Republicans.

Thus further allowing Republicans to get away with awfulness.

In the long run it's far more beneficial to avoid whitewashing them and avoid acting as if occasional decent acts make up for a long record of terribleness. Just because he was not as bad as Trump doesn't mean he was anything other than a few degrees better.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 28th 2018 at 3:46:05 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#253362: Aug 28th 2018 at 12:46:19 PM

I don't think that was Wanderer's point though. Just as occasional moments of decency doesn't undo the bad, it's no more correct to pretend the good didn't exist either.

People are everything about them, not just the parts you like or dislike. If what Mc Cain was, overall, still leaves you thinking he was severely lacking as a human being, that's perfectly understandable.

But it doesn't justify pretending he was literally evil incarnate. Saying you think there was one or two good things about a person isn't whitewashing them; not as long as you're acknowledging everything else about them as well.

Edited by LSBK on Aug 28th 2018 at 2:46:59 PM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#253363: Aug 28th 2018 at 12:49:13 PM

I suppose I can agree then, Mc Cain like Trump or any other human being was not evil incarnate.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#253364: Aug 28th 2018 at 12:50:25 PM

https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2018/08/28/day-586/

Day 586: Serious situation.

1/ North Carolina's congressional district maps were unconstitutionally gerrymandered in favor of Republicans and new maps may have to be drawn before the midterm elections, a panel of three federal judges ruled. The judges said they were reluctant to allow voting to take place in districts that have twice been found to violate constitutional standards while acknowledging that primary elections have already occurred. North Carolina legislators are likely to ask to the Supreme Court to hear the case. (Washington Post / CNN)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/27/politics/north-carolina-gerrymandering-court/index.html

2/ Trump accused Google of being "RIGGED" against him because the "search results for 'Trump News'" show mostly "BAD" coverage about him from the "Fake New Media." Trump charged that Google was limiting "fair media" coverage about him and "suppressing voices of Conservatives and hiding information and news that is good," declaring it a "very serious situation" and promising that it "will be addressed!" Larry Kudlow, the director of the National Economic Council, said the Trump administration is "taking a look" at whether Google should be regulated. (New York Times / Reuters / Axios / Washington Post / Wall Street Journal)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-tech/trump-accuses-google-of-hiding-fair-media-coverage-idUSKCN1LD1I1

Google Responds: "Search is not used to set a political agenda and we don't bias our results toward any political ideology. Every year, we issue hundreds of improvements to our algorithms to ensure they surface high-quality content in response to users' queries. We continually work to improve Google Search and we never rank search results to manipulate political sentiment." (CNBC)

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/28/trump-accuses-google-of-rigging-search-results-in-favor-of-bad-coverage.html

Trump's Twitter tirade followed a Lou Dobbs segment that aired Monday night where the Fox Business host discussed an article titled, "96 Percent of Google Search Results for 'Trump' News Are from Liberal Media Outlets." The article's author admitted that the data was "not scientific." (Axios / CNN)

https://www.axios.com/trump-tweet-google-censorship-e5fb9792-069b-419e-8506-03855d3bf9c7.html

3/ The USDA will pay $4.7 billion to farmers hurt by retaliatory tariffs from China stemming from Trump's trade war. The initial payment is part of some $12 billion in aid Trump promised to farmers in July. Starting Sept. 4, the USDA's Farm Service Agency will provide payments to corn, cotton, diary, hog, sorghum, soybean and wheat farmers. Soybean farmers will receive $3.7 billion, pork producers will get $290 million, and cotton farmers will receive $277 million. A separate program will be used to buy $1.2 billion in products unfairly targeted by "unjustified retaliation." (NPR / USA Today / ABC News / Wall Street Journal)

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/28/642525831/agriculture-dept-will-pay-4-7-billion-to-farmers-hit-in-trade-war

4/ Trump was involved in the decision to cancel a decade-long to move the FBI to a new consolidated headquarters in the Maryland or Virginia suburbs, a Government Services Administration inspector general report says. The current FBI headquarters sits across the street from the Trump International Hotel. Last year, the Trump administration announced it would not relocate the FBI to the suburbs and would redevelop the current site instead. The inspector general concluded that "GSA did not include all of the costs in its Revised FBI Headquarters Plan" and the rebuilding proposal selected by the FBI would cost more, rather than less, than the plan to move the FBI to the suburbs. The inspector general also noted that GSA employees were instructed "not to disclose any statements made by the president" as part of its review of the matter, citing executive privilege. (CBS News / CNN / Wall Street Journal / Roll Call / Washington Post)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/27/politics/fbi-headquarters-ig-report-white-house/index.html

poll/ 64% of Americans believe Michael Cohen's claim that Trump ordered him to make illegal payments to Stormy Daniels and Karen Mc Dougal to keep them quiet. 44% believe Congress should start impeachment proceedings. (Axios)

https://www.axios.com/exclusive-poll-americans-believe-cohen-dont-want-impeachment-e5ac7439-3a30-471a-bdb5-8a225ce80e12.html

Notables.

The New York City Department of Buildings cited Kushner Companies for 42 violations and $210,000 in fines for submitting false permit information at 17 buildings in an attempt to remove rent-regulated tenants. The company claims that the violations were "paperwork errors" and will have the opportunity to contest the citations. Tenant activists also issued a report that suggests an investment group led by Michael Cohen falsified construction permits by claiming that three buildings in Manhattan were vacant or had no rent-controlled tenants, when in fact they did. (New York Times)

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/27/nyregion/kushner-cohen-rent-regulated-tenants.html

Manafort's defense team met with prosecutors to discuss a second set of charges against him before he was convicted last week, but they were unable to reach a deal. The discussions over the second set of charges stalled over issues raised by Mueller, although the specific issues in question remain unclear. The point of the talks was to prevent a second, related trial for Manafort, which is scheduled for Sept. 17. Prosecutors and defense attorneys have been arguing over how to describe the second case to the jury, as well as which pieces of evidence can be presented during the trial. (Wall Street Journal)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/manafort-sought-deal-in-next-trial-but-talks-broke-down-1535404819

Lanny Davis says he was an anonymous source for a CNN story published in July that claimed his client, Michael Cohen, privately said that he Trump knew in advance about the infamous Trump Tower meeting between Trump Jr. and Russians. The story said Cohen claimed to have personally witnessed Trump Jr. informing his father about the June 2016 meeting. Davis admitted that he served as an anonymous source for multiple news outlets seeking to confirm the story after CNN published it. Now, Davis says he is not certain that the claim is accurate and he regrets his role as anonymous source and his subsequent denial of his involvement in the reporting. Other news outlets that originally confirmed CNN's reporting have since retracted their own stories, but CNN has not. "We stand by our story," CNN said in a statement, "and are confident in our reporting of it." (Buzz Feed News / The Intercept)

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/stevenperlberg/lanny-davis-cnn-trump-tower-story

Trump belatedly issued a proclamation of praise for Sen. John Mc Cain and ordered the American flag to be flown at half-staff following bipartisan criticism and public pressure. Trump had ordered the flag back to full-staff two days after Mc Cain's death, sparking outrage from both lawmakers and members of the public, including many in his own party. (New York Times / NBC News)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/w-h-flag-back-full-staff-after-mccain-s-death-n904061

Republican Sen. James Inhofe said John Mc Cain was "partially to blame" for the controversy over the lowering of the White House flag to honor of his death. Inhofe said Mc Cain was to blame "because he is very outspoken" and "he disagreed with the President." (CNN)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/27/politics/james-inhofe-john-mccain-white-house-flag/index.html

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#253365: Aug 28th 2018 at 12:51:44 PM

What is this, like, the third or fourth time North Carolina's map has been ruled as unfairly gerrymandered?

How does this keep coming up without it actually being changed?

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#253366: Aug 28th 2018 at 12:55:10 PM

What is this, like, the third or fourth time North Carolina's map has been ruled as unfairly gerrymandered?

How does this keep coming up without it actually being changed?.

North Carolina.

i'm tired, my friend
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#253367: Aug 28th 2018 at 12:56:47 PM

Because the Republican state senate just straight up refuses to do it among other things.

Oh really when?
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#253368: Aug 28th 2018 at 1:12:02 PM

A complete lack of knowledge about firearms and how to regulate them is by far and away the biggest problem with gun control advocates.

This is how we got the infamous “30 caliber/30 magazine clip” line which to this day is brought up by gun advocates when arguing about magazine caps.

Guns are a fairly arcane and technical subject, but I think Democrats need to try and at least have passing knowledge of the issue because gun advocates are frequently single-issue voters, with large segments who could easily be made blue with the right platform and better rhetoric.

They should have sent a poet.
thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#253369: Aug 28th 2018 at 1:13:37 PM

The government owning and operating certain essential services is a socialist manner and frankly should exist under certain elements.

Even Adam Smith believed that some industries should be government run dude.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#253370: Aug 28th 2018 at 1:57:53 PM

[up][up]

Which is why it would be nice if the NRA were to come to the table and correct some of the false assumptions - the problem is that they're a Single-Issue Wonk that sees any legislation as "too far".

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#253371: Aug 28th 2018 at 2:05:14 PM

Makes me wonder if there are any NRA or otherwise gun advocates who were caught up in or lost a loved one to a mass shooting incident and then changed their viewpoint, or if they just remained staunchly pro-gun anyway.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#253372: Aug 28th 2018 at 2:10:29 PM

[up][up]I dunno, if the false assumptions are what's keeping Dems from forming an effective gun control coalition they seem to be working in the NRA's favor.

[up]Not sure, but I wouldn't doubt it.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Aug 28th 2018 at 5:10:15 AM

i'm tired, my friend
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#253373: Aug 28th 2018 at 2:11:58 PM

[up][up][up] The NRA is completely beholden to the gun industry, their only legislative priority is to sell as many guns to as many people as possible. And as Physical [nja]’d me on, that misinformation works in their favor anyways.

At this point, gun owners like myself who support gun control or vote blue (or might vote blue) need to step up and start doing their part. They can’t claim to be impartial any more, in the face of what’s going on these days.

Edited by archonspeaks on Aug 28th 2018 at 2:14:28 AM

They should have sent a poet.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#253374: Aug 28th 2018 at 2:18:24 PM

@danime91: I'm not aware of any examples. Probably not, because most critics of gun control are of the opinion that such policies won't help or will even make the problem worse. This isn't correct most of the time, but it is what they think.

I myself used to be very critical of gun control, and I did have a friend who lived near the site of the Vegas Shooting (though to my relief the weren't in town at the time). It didn't effect my views on gun control (though to be fair by that time I was already starting to think some gun control might be necessary).

Leviticus 19:34
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#253375: Aug 28th 2018 at 2:19:19 PM

The NRA now answers to Russia.

Which makes an interesting spin on Red Dawn's scene where they round up the local gun owners.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

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