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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
When gun control advocates don't vote, they're just as responsible as the gun lobby for gun violence.
It's like how Sanders voters are responsible for Trump because they didn't like Hillary Clinton.
Edited by Mario1995 on Aug 28th 2018 at 2:41:44 PM
"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
Nonsense, responsibility is not a binary between yes and no and blaming gun control advocates shows some majorly screwed priorities on your part.
Failing to stop something is a failure but it's not as bad as actually doing that. That's like blaming Democrats for Republican actions because they couldn't stop it.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangI'm willing to forgive Castro a certain amount due to much of what he did being America's fault or driven by legitimate fear of American action (we had consistently behaved worse towards Cuba than Castro ever did), but that only goes to a point.
I think my viewpoint is best summed up by my eulogy in the RIP thread: "Rest in peace, you son of a bitch."
The fear is that technology will improve to where 3D-printed guns will be as functional as real guns, and there's every reason to believe we're heading to that point.
Oh, and there's already a fully functional 3D gun out there
. That's how advanced we've gotten.
Edited by Mario1995 on Aug 28th 2018 at 3:00:47 PM
"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam GallagherAgain, we've talked about this multiple times. There is zero threat from 3D printed weapons.
The equipment needed to make the handgun in the article requires a decent sized warehouse and costs enough to bankrupt most small businesses.
Take the time to learn about the problems and the topics before going in hysterics.
A complete lack of knowledge about firearms and how to regulate them is by far and away the biggest problem with gun control advocates. It's how we get absolutely useless shit like the assault weapons bans. We can't pass laws if our side doesn't even know what it's talking about.
Edited by LeGarcon on Aug 28th 2018 at 3:05:33 PM
Oh really when?For those interested, here's the full text of the flag-lowering proclamation.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this twenty-seventh day of August, in the year of our Lord two thousand eighteen, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and forty-third.
DONALD J. TRUMP
I gotta wonder who drafted that for him, because holy hell no one writes like that anymore, let alone Trump.
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"Other question: how do people see The Young Turks around here and Jimmy Dore in particular? They proclaim to be left leaning but Dore being cuddly over Trump and conspiracy theorists, along with the group’s real love of Jill Stein and whitewashing Bernie Sanders makes me think otherwise. Also brought up because I saw the same Castro worship from them and rage over Mc Cain’s tributes.
I think right wingers believe there’s a lot more love for Castro in the American left wing than actually exists, unless I’m just missing all the fun left wing meetings. ![]()
That said, I’m sure some people may have embraced him for various reasons, including just the perversity of “Our opponents hate him, so he can’t be all bad.”
Castro was a bastard, no doubt about it. If you completely divorce morality from your mind you can make a case that at least some of what he did was strategically necessary; the U.S. was doing overthrowing Central and South American countries like it was going out of style using everything from backing armed and incredibly repressive revolutionaries to propaganda campaigns, (such as subverting a country’s free press by buying up newspapers and then turning them into mouthpieces for the U.S.) to subverting elections to every once in a while ever so carefully hinting that countries could find themselves directly overthrown if they didn’t toe the line the U.S. set, whether politically or in terms of letting U.S. companies do whatever they wanted with that country’s natural resources.
So of course to depose a U.S. backed regime practically on the doorstep of the U.S. that had been a colony of the States in everything but name for generations was going to take drastic measures to seize and hold onto power. Of course Castro certainly went far beyond what even those drastic measures required and committed a lot of atrocities that had nothing to do with all that, (see his homophobia, for example) and kept it up long after the U.S. pretty much lost all interest in him, mostly so his head didn’t wind up on a spike should the political winds of the island ever shift.
So fuck that guy.
McCain, I’d argue, is getting too much whitewashing from politicians and the press, but at the same time I think some online liberals and progressives are going the other way. I’d agree with him on virtually nothing other than the corrupting power of money in politics and the utter evil of torture, and some of his positions and beliefs (foreign policy hawkishness and domestic “small government” beliefs, as 2 examples) caused legitimate suffering around the world for millions, in ways that the man himself would almost certainly never own up to or believe.
Despite that he had his moments of honor, reasonableness, and he was far from the worst of the Republican Party, and did more than virtually any Republican official to stand up to the worst elements of that party. Saying “he was better than the Tea Party, the Freedom Caucus, the alt-Right, and Trump” may be damning with awfully faint praise, but it’s still something and it’s still true.
He’s no paragon, (for me) and he’s no Complete Monster Sith Lord either, even if the press is far too kind to him.
Young Turks is trash. Basically the Glenn Beck of the left. After needing more than half an hour to type this much on my phone, however, I’m not inclined to go into more detail on these subjects right now.
My first thought is Stephen Miller, sounds like the sort of semi-royal, semi-fascist generalissimo purple prose that he’d get off to. Probably not enough blatant illegality, xenophobia, or ranting about janitors though.
Edited by TheWanderer on Aug 30th 2018 at 8:57:47 AM
| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |The fundamental problem with this kind of argument is that it posits that Republicans who occasionally demonstrate the barest shred of human decency should be lionized, which I think is rather terrible in that it allows Republicans like Mc Cain who are simply more subtle about their awfulness to be whitewashed and used as evidence for "reasonable" and "moderate" Republicans.
Thus further allowing Republicans to get away with awfulness.
In the long run it's far more beneficial to avoid whitewashing them and avoid acting as if occasional decent acts make up for a long record of terribleness. Just because he was not as bad as Trump doesn't mean he was anything other than a few degrees better.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 28th 2018 at 3:46:05 PM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangI don't think that was Wanderer's point though. Just as occasional moments of decency doesn't undo the bad, it's no more correct to pretend the good didn't exist either.
People are everything about them, not just the parts you like or dislike. If what Mc Cain was, overall, still leaves you thinking he was severely lacking as a human being, that's perfectly understandable.
But it doesn't justify pretending he was literally evil incarnate. Saying you think there was one or two good things about a person isn't whitewashing them; not as long as you're acknowledging everything else about them as well.
Edited by LSBK on Aug 28th 2018 at 2:46:59 PM
I suppose I can agree then, Mc Cain like Trump or any other human being was not evil incarnate.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yanghttps://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2018/08/28/day-586/
Day 586: Serious situation.
1/ North Carolina's congressional district maps were unconstitutionally gerrymandered in favor of Republicans and new maps may have to be drawn before the midterm elections, a panel of three federal judges ruled. The judges said they were reluctant to allow voting to take place in districts that have twice been found to violate constitutional standards while acknowledging that primary elections have already occurred. North Carolina legislators are likely to ask to the Supreme Court to hear the case. (Washington Post / CNN)
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/27/politics/north-carolina-gerrymandering-court/index.html
2/ Trump accused Google of being "RIGGED" against him because the "search results for 'Trump News'" show mostly "BAD" coverage about him from the "Fake New Media." Trump charged that Google was limiting "fair media" coverage about him and "suppressing voices of Conservatives and hiding information and news that is good," declaring it a "very serious situation" and promising that it "will be addressed!" Larry Kudlow, the director of the National Economic Council, said the Trump administration is "taking a look" at whether Google should be regulated. (New York Times / Reuters / Axios / Washington Post / Wall Street Journal)
Trump's Twitter tirade followed a Lou Dobbs segment that aired Monday night where the Fox Business host discussed an article titled, "96 Percent of Google Search Results for 'Trump' News Are from Liberal Media Outlets." The article's author admitted that the data was "not scientific." (Axios / CNN)
https://www.axios.com/trump-tweet-google-censorship-e5fb9792-069b-419e-8506-03855d3bf9c7.html
3/ The USDA will pay $4.7 billion to farmers hurt by retaliatory tariffs from China stemming from Trump's trade war. The initial payment is part of some $12 billion in aid Trump promised to farmers in July. Starting Sept. 4, the USDA's Farm Service Agency will provide payments to corn, cotton, diary, hog, sorghum, soybean and wheat farmers. Soybean farmers will receive $3.7 billion, pork producers will get $290 million, and cotton farmers will receive $277 million. A separate program will be used to buy $1.2 billion in products unfairly targeted by "unjustified retaliation." (NPR / USA Today / ABC News / Wall Street Journal)
4/ Trump was involved in the decision to cancel a decade-long to move the FBI to a new consolidated headquarters in the Maryland or Virginia suburbs, a Government Services Administration inspector general report says. The current FBI headquarters sits across the street from the Trump International Hotel. Last year, the Trump administration announced it would not relocate the FBI to the suburbs and would redevelop the current site instead. The inspector general concluded that "GSA did not include all of the costs in its Revised FBI Headquarters Plan" and the rebuilding proposal selected by the FBI would cost more, rather than less, than the plan to move the FBI to the suburbs. The inspector general also noted that GSA employees were instructed "not to disclose any statements made by the president" as part of its review of the matter, citing executive privilege. (CBS News / CNN / Wall Street Journal / Roll Call / Washington Post)
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/27/politics/fbi-headquarters-ig-report-white-house/index.html
poll/ 64% of Americans believe Michael Cohen's claim that Trump ordered him to make illegal payments to Stormy Daniels and Karen Mc Dougal to keep them quiet. 44% believe Congress should start impeachment proceedings. (Axios)
Notables.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/27/nyregion/kushner-cohen-rent-regulated-tenants.html
Manafort's defense team met with prosecutors to discuss a second set of charges against him before he was convicted last week, but they were unable to reach a deal. The discussions over the second set of charges stalled over issues raised by Mueller, although the specific issues in question remain unclear. The point of the talks was to prevent a second, related trial for Manafort, which is scheduled for Sept. 17. Prosecutors and defense attorneys have been arguing over how to describe the second case to the jury, as well as which pieces of evidence can be presented during the trial. (Wall Street Journal)
https://www.wsj.com/articles/manafort-sought-deal-in-next-trial-but-talks-broke-down-1535404819
Lanny Davis says he was an anonymous source for a CNN story published in July that claimed his client, Michael Cohen, privately said that he Trump knew in advance about the infamous Trump Tower meeting between Trump Jr. and Russians. The story said Cohen claimed to have personally witnessed Trump Jr. informing his father about the June 2016 meeting. Davis admitted that he served as an anonymous source for multiple news outlets seeking to confirm the story after CNN published it. Now, Davis says he is not certain that the claim is accurate and he regrets his role as anonymous source and his subsequent denial of his involvement in the reporting. Other news outlets that originally confirmed CNN's reporting have since retracted their own stories, but CNN has not. "We stand by our story," CNN said in a statement, "and are confident in our reporting of it." (Buzz Feed News / The Intercept)
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/stevenperlberg/lanny-davis-cnn-trump-tower-story
Trump belatedly issued a proclamation of praise for Sen. John Mc Cain and ordered the American flag to be flown at half-staff following bipartisan criticism and public pressure. Trump had ordered the flag back to full-staff two days after Mc Cain's death, sparking outrage from both lawmakers and members of the public, including many in his own party. (New York Times / NBC News)
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/w-h-flag-back-full-staff-after-mccain-s-death-n904061
Republican Sen. James Inhofe said John Mc Cain was "partially to blame" for the controversy over the lowering of the White House flag to honor of his death. Inhofe said Mc Cain was to blame "because he is very outspoken" and "he disagreed with the President." (CNN)
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/27/politics/james-inhofe-john-mccain-white-house-flag/index.html
This is how we got the infamous “30 caliber/30 magazine clip” line which to this day is brought up by gun advocates when arguing about magazine caps.
Guns are a fairly arcane and technical subject, but I think Democrats need to try and at least have passing knowledge of the issue because gun advocates are frequently single-issue voters, with large segments who could easily be made blue with the right platform and better rhetoric.
They should have sent a poet.![]()
Which is why it would be nice if the NRA were to come to the table and correct some of the false assumptions - the problem is that they're a Single-Issue Wonk that sees any legislation as "too far".
"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"![]()
![]()
The NRA is completely beholden to the gun industry, their only legislative priority is to sell as many guns to as many people as possible. And as Physical
’d me on, that misinformation works in their favor anyways.
At this point, gun owners like myself who support gun control or vote blue (or might vote blue) need to step up and start doing their part. They can’t claim to be impartial any more, in the face of what’s going on these days.
Edited by archonspeaks on Aug 28th 2018 at 2:14:28 AM
They should have sent a poet.@danime91: I'm not aware of any examples. Probably not, because most critics of gun control are of the opinion that such policies won't help or will even make the problem worse. This isn't correct most of the time, but it is what they think.
I myself used to be very critical of gun control, and I did have a friend who lived near the site of the Vegas Shooting (though to my relief the weren't in town at the time). It didn't effect my views on gun control (though to be fair by that time I was already starting to think some gun control might be necessary).
Leviticus 19:34

I love how you're blaming gun control advocates for the actions of gun producers, oh wait did I say love?
Hate would probably be a better word
Nice strawman, my position has been that Democratic voters who didn't vote (i.e people who didn't vote for Hillary) could've and thus should be focused on when talking about what lost her the election.
It's purely Stein voters that I don't believe would've realistically voted for her in noteworthy numbers.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 28th 2018 at 2:39:34 PM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang